All the classic things that bug you

[rahmani]

Intentional classic bugs - These always seemed pointless to add in, these aren't really design flaws in my opinion they are misimplementated designs.

-- (Y,X,Z) coordinates -- There's no feasible way they would have done that on purpose, it had to be an accident. Especially since EQ was one of the first MMOs, the original MUDs they were based off of all had (X,Y,Z) coordinates; I remember I used to play them in elementary school.

-- Silly graphical bugs -- Lich form has no name plate? I don't think there's any GUI or lore (dis)advantage to it. It must have been an oversight. Why do druid wolves have name plates? Why do enchanters in all their illusions (minus skeleton) have name plates?

-- Utter uselessness of vast swaths of spells/skills --
* Begging -- yeah, you already knew that though
* AoE Rain Spells -- each player pet soaks up one rain per round, due to a bug
* Spirals of Al'Kabor -- mana cost is so high, nobody ever uses them

[Lagaidh]

Originally Posted by rahmani [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-- (Y,X,Z) coordinates -- There's no feasible way they would have done that on purpose, it had to be an accident. Especially since EQ was one of the first MMOs, the original MUDs they were based off of all had (X,Y,Z) coordinates; I remember I used to play them in elementary school.

I always had a theory that it was a mistake, too. I wondered if it was as simple as a mix up constructing the string displayed to the user. Specifically, I thought the data model is correct (X,Y,Z), but they mixed up X and Y values when constructing the "Your location..." string.

Of course, there's a lot of game design I don't know... maybe there are more items akin to "(0,0) is usually the upper left hand corner in graphics" that would render (Y,X,Z) sensical.

The real odd pickle is: I've had a character logged into some form of EQ1 for around 350 days... why can't I get used to (Y,X,Z)? Heh!

[rahmani]

Originally Posted by Lagaidh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I always had a theory that it was a mistake, too. I wondered if it was as simple as a mix up constructing the string displayed to the user. Specifically, I thought the data model is correct (X,Y,Z), but they mixed up X and Y values when constructing the "Your location..." string.

Of course, there's a lot of game design I don't know... maybe there are more items akin to "(0,0) is usually the upper left hand corner in graphics" that would render (Y,X,Z) sensical.

The real odd pickle is: I've had a character logged into some form of EQ1 for around 350 days... why can't I get used to (Y,X,Z)? Heh!

I know the feeling, I am almost always running the wrong direction.

You are right, in WoW at least
(0,0) is the top left corner of the map
(0,100) is the top right corner
(100,0) is the bottom left
(100,100) is bottom right

Basically in that case it's (X,Y), but the sign seems reversed on both coordinates.

[Lagaidh]

Originally Posted by rahmani [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know the feeling, I am almost always running the wrong direction.

You are right, in WoW at least
(0,0) is the top left corner of the map
(0,100) is the top right corner
(100,0) is the bottom left
(100,100) is bottom right

Basically in that case it's (X,Y), but the sign seems reversed on both coordinates.

Yeah that's a standard in the graphics I've been exposed to: winforms, WPF, that funky UI library on Mac I can't recall the name of, OpenGL...

That's why I think it's less likely that the data model is actually (Y,X,Z) and that it's just that the display of the /location command is borked; but I'm the ultimate on-the-fencer... I often try to leave room for what I haven't considered.

[Kutsumo]

This is kinda off the subject of this thread, but the only things that really bother me are the bugs/broken quests, etc that are left in just to stay 100% true to the classic patch timeline. Many of these were unintended by the developers and there's not much reason to leave them IMO. I would rather see these bug fix patches hit along with the expansion, and stay true to timeline for content additions.

[Droog007]

Try to stop thinking in terms of the XYZ coordinate model, and more in terms of the compass rose... i.e. North-South / East-West. You don't say "East West North South", and you don't say "North East South West"... The elevation isn't that useful anyway... hence it can be ignored, tacked on the end, etc.

I'm annoyed by ditching GUI compasses in the name of classic when the original devs probably would have been thrilled if someone had come up with it back then... but I digress. (classic could be more about what they were shooting for and not necessarily bound by what they were able to deliver - same lines as broken quests)

Has someone come up with a log parser that will interact with a map in a separate window? Using the last 2 or 3 posts from the /loc command to draw a vector? That would be even better - legal and technically still classic. One of you uber-nerds get on that. Chop-chop!

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Droog007 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm annoyed by ditching GUI compasses in the name of classic

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On to the OP's question.. things in classic that annoyed me at the time:

-Inability to move items around in containers at the bank. You would have to take the container out, move things, and put it back iirc.
-Spells being interrupted by attempted player trades
-Erudites not being able to use BFGs
-many more

[abazaba]

Originally Posted by Droog007 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Has someone come up with a log parser that will interact with a map in a separate window? Using the last 2 or 3 posts from the /loc command to draw a vector? That would be even better - legal and technically still classic. One of you uber-nerds get on that. Chop-chop!

I remember a post where someone made a map program that gleaned locs and applied them to a map. I don't think he ever got a response from a GM whether it was legal to use or not, but I assume it is legal because the log info is available to everyone. If the staff said it was okie-dokie, I'd love to write something up [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lagaidh]

Originally Posted by Droog007 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Try to stop thinking in terms of the XYZ coordinate model, and more in terms of the compass rose... i.e. North-South / East-West. You don't say "East West North South", and you don't say "North East South West"...

Hehe. That's exactly what I try to do, but from the mental orientation of (X,Y). I agree that Z is almost always ignorable. We can usually see enough of the Z plane that we don't feel the need to abstract that property to a map. Standing at any one (X,Y) point in a zone, however, it's hard to see enough length and breadth to feel one's bearings inside of the whole.

I did have to comment earlier... after all the time I've spent with (Y,X) in EQ, why can't I make my brain get used to it? Hell I can speak and write in two human languages, code in dozens of machine languages. My mind is fluid to alternative views of identical concepts. Why the frack can't I get over thissun?

I'll caveat it though: I'm in a nature-of-perception-and-thought kind of a mode today looking at some of the conversations I'm having. I guess that happens when boredom is rampant.