Suicide Kings Raid Proposal

[sidgb]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Guild raid filling out 1/3 of it's ranks = on permanent SK list as a guild, or can apply to become one when necessary.

PuG with 1/3 of it's memebers as a single guild entity = possibly maintained on SK list, or at least with premeditation appears on the list at the appropriate time.

There is a small gap in there but that's what the coalition type is for. If a guild is struggling to maintain 50% of a raid force as it's composition it probably shouldn't be raiding as a guild. If that's the case just recruit a few more members to put themselves under the 1/3 or 10 cap

Actually a lot of guilds use this method of composite raid as a way to increase their numbers. They build a core and invite prospective others to fill out the raid. Thereby showing off their ability to organize and mobilize in an efficient way.

By my thinking they are the biggest threat to more bloated guilds controlling content with sheer numbers.

I think we can agree the pug option was only included because no one truly expects it to be a factor under this system.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by sidgb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think we can agree the pug option was only included because no one truly expects it to be a factor under this system.

A pug gets more boned in a FFA system than it does under SK in my eyes.
Why? Because by the time you are all set and ready to pull, another more organized guild or raid group will have killed it fifteen minutes ago. At least under SK you can plan ahead, ensure numbers, raid composition etc and send out a tracker. This is why I called it a predetermined pug raid group.

Do I think a pug raid group would sign up for Suicide Kings, get their waiting week period done, roll in and then sit waiting for Voxx to pop her entire window? Probably not. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be given accommodation and chance to do so under the ruleset.

I loved pugging raids, I just think that they need to be incorporated into the system. "We're a pug we don't have to follow your rules" is a cop out, especially when they have just as much a chance as any other group under the proposal.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A pug gets more boned in a FFA system than it does under SK in my eyes.
Why? Because by the time you are all set and ready to pull, another more organized guild or raid group will have killed it fifteen minutes ago. At least under SK you can plan ahead, ensure numbers, raid composition etc and send out a tracker. This is why I called it a predetermined pug raid group.

Do I think a pug raid group would sign up for Suicide Kings, get their waiting week period done, roll in and then sit waiting for Voxx to pop her entire window? Probably not. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be given accommodation and chance to do so under the ruleset.

I loved pugging raids, I just think that they need to be incorporated into the system. "We're a pug we don't have to follow your rules" is a cop out, especially when they have just as much a chance as any other group under the proposal.

We need to keep in mind that pug raids only came into the scene during kunark, when the old classic stuff wasn't on perma-lockdown and many guilds simply bypassed targets like draco/maestro and sometimes inny/CT. I think pug raids should only be addressed when they actually prove a threat to the current guilds. I know that may sound like somewhat of a harsh statement, but I can't think of a single instance where a pug downed a raid target in the past 3-4 months.

[sidgb]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We need to keep in mind that pug raids only came into the scene during kunark, when the old classic stuff wasn't on perma-lockdown and many guilds simply bypassed targets like draco/maestro and sometimes inny/CT. I think pug raids should only be addressed when they actually prove a threat to the current guilds. I know that may sound like somewhat of a harsh statement, but I can't think of a single instance where a pug downed a raid target in the past 3-4 months.

You exclude anyone from fair participation in your ruleset you give them the right to operate outside it in every way.

[sidgb]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A pug gets more boned in a FFA system than it does under SK in my eyes.
Why? Because by the time you are all set and ready to pull, another more organized guild or raid group will have killed it fifteen minutes ago. At least under SK you can plan ahead, ensure numbers, raid composition etc and send out a tracker. This is why I called it a predetermined pug raid group.

Do I think a pug raid group would sign up for Suicide Kings, get their waiting week period done, roll in and then sit waiting for Voxx to pop her entire window? Probably not. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be given accommodation and chance to do so under the ruleset.

I loved pugging raids, I just think that they need to be incorporated into the system. "We're a pug we don't have to follow your rules" is a cop out, especially when they have just as much a chance as any other group under the proposal.

Oh, I agree completely.

I am just trying to say it's a non-threatening option in most people's minds at this point that would not present an obstacle to agreement to this plan. But, there are a lot of people being excluded between alliance raid and pug raid that are legitimate threats to availability of content. Some guilds want to raid with potential recruits, not alliances. That is unless they are trying to steal members of other guilds which opens up a whole new source of fodder for the flame boards.

Anyway, time will tell I suppose.

How would a PuG raid leader get recognized and gain access to the closed forum?