Raid Changes

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am still down with trying to improve the raid scene. Step by step, if necessary.

So I love the idea of simulated patch days Nilbog, but I think they are not enough. Suppose we have 1 simulated patch day without variance. Imagine you are Shinko/Zeelot. Your guild has 100+ active raiders each with 3 L60 toons. Before the patch, you split your forces into two teams, let's call them blue and red. After the patch TMO/FE Blue logs on with 35+ toons and goes for Trakanon, then logs off to a new set of fully buffed toons and goes for Sev (while having a few people get killed by CT and make everyone camp out to delay), then logs off to a new set of fully buffed toons and goes for CT. TMO/FE Red logs on with 35+ and goes for VS, switches toons for Inny, and finally goes for Talendor. Because they are just logging on a new set of fully buffed toons (and the pulls for sev and talendor can start early) the whole process is over in 30 minutes. Now 30 minutes is still a huge improvement; some casual guild will get Maestro for sure and maybe Draco. With practice perhaps even Inny. Gorenaire will no doubt be zerged down by 300+ while TMO/FE play in VP.

Basically I know it's not classic but there has to be code for the simulated resets that prevents a) logging out fully buffed characters and b) swapping between characters. Lets run that simulation again using the Loraen plan when both of those are impossible and there is no training in VP. Suddenly if you are Zeelot/Shinko you have to make real choices. Lets say you split your forces to go for VS/Trak. Well if the zone is fully popped this might take a while. There will probably be at least one see invis either in the jail or a jugg, so that has to be trained away for everyone to move down. It'll probably take 15 minutes for everyone to kill Trak and then get an evac to Skyfire for VP. That's more than enough time for a raid force camped out at the VP zone in to kill Phara Dar. OK, so you send one team for VP and one for Trak. Well after 15 minutes to kill Trak there is no way VS is up, so they head for fear. Which they have to actually port to, rez the dead, run from feerot port, etc. Thats 15 minutes. Anyway, my point is that the guilds would have to actually behave like guilds at this point, and port from target to target, rather than just log on/off.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your guild has 100+ active raiders each with 3 L60 toons.

I think the "multiple raid-geared characters logged out at different bosses per real player" is quite an exaggeration.

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the "multiple raid-geared characters logged out at different bosses per real player" is quite an exaggeration.

albeit an exaggeration, he may not be too far off. I mean, what else do the officers spend the millions of pp on?

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Itap [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

he may not be too far off. I mean, what else do the officers spend the millions of pp on?

Yes, he is.

TMO's officers are not spending millions of PP to buy multiple, raid-ready level 60 accounts for every member of the guild. I'm sure a dozen or so of their members have multiple 60s that are ready for raids, but I doubt that all of those characters are strategically positioned at all times... and that is very, very long ways away from 100 people with 3 raid-ready 60s each, all of which are sitting around at boss camps fully buffed.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Check out TMO's roster. Look at how many players are in parentheses.

2. Notice that a lot of the people not in parentheses have alts (Jeremy has 4 toons, Alarti is Paradime and others, Internode has Aether, etc)

3. TMO alts get more gear than BDA mains; Zeelot has an SK!! alt with the epic which I think is hilarious, and the alts load up on VP gear as well.

4. If the server switches to simultaneous repops, having multiple chars will become a priority and the number of alts will hugely increase. Especially a lot of naggy/vox alts would make the trip to 60 I'm guessing.

So basically either that is the situation now, or it would be the situation in 3 months.

Like I said. I'm sure several people have at least a few accounts. And I'm sure many people have a couple. But I seriously doubt just about everything in the statement "TMO has 100 active raiders each of whom have 3 60s that are always buffed and logged out at strategically-selected boss spawns." Jeremy and Zeelot are extreme examples, even for TMO, and you know it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the "multiple raid-geared characters logged out at different bosses per real player" is quite an exaggeration.

1. Check out TMO's roster. Look at how many players are in parentheses.

2. Notice that a lot of the people not in parentheses have alts (Jeremy has 4 toons, Alarti is Paradime and others, Internode has Aether, etc)

3. TMO alts get more gear than BDA mains; Zeelot has an SK!! alt with the epic which I think is hilarious, and the alts load up on VP gear as well.

4. If the server switches to simultaneous repops, having multiple chars will become a priority and the number of alts will hugely increase. Especially a lot of naggy/vox alts would make the trip to 60 I'm guessing.

So basically either that is the situation now, or it would be the situation in 3 months.

edit: I should mention I'm not shitting on TMO here; a lot of the A-team has multiple raid chars (Loraen/Sakuragi, Coeur/Atravesar, Azz/Azz, Nordenwatch/Furiously, etc). It's just been a long time since Kunark came out, espcially when 55+ toons are for sale for 100k in the tunnel.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Check out TMO's roster. Look at how many players are in parentheses.

2. Notice that a lot of the people not in parentheses have alts (Jeremy has 4 toons, Alarti is Paradime and others, Internode has Aether, etc)

3. TMO alts get more gear than BDA mains; Zeelot has an SK!! alt with the epic which I think is hilarious, and the alts load up on VP gear as well.

4. If the server switches to simultaneous repops, having multiple chars will become a priority and the number of alts will hugely increase. Especially a lot of naggy/vox alts would make the trip to 60 I'm guessing.

So basically either that is the situation now, or it would be the situation in 3 months.

Anyone in the game can do this. It again comes down to the "punishing people for what they've earned" kind of thing. There is nothing inherently wrong with having multiple characters logged out in strategic places, ready to engage raid targets.

The unfairness comes into play with the Variance. It creates the situation where only the largest guilds can afford the man-hours to Track the targets, something that simply did not exist in Live. Spawn times were known and raids were mobilized on that basis, not via Trackers and batphones. Without Variance, a given number of raiders could expect a given number of kills just due to probability of FTE, without all the waiting and socking. That created Rotations.

So now we've got this cult of entitlement coming out of TMO, where the scum has floated to the top of the server. Rogean is so self-contradictory between the issues of Variance and Classic, when he even bothers to check on us anymore, that it would be fascinating to watch, if we weren't so directly involved. That only makes it nauseating.

The question is, can we expect Rogean to show any interest in the server ever again? I am chewing leather for the developers who still actually care, and it's basically a matter of days before the server begins losing the new population influx to the totally fux0red raid scene. Hasn't this exact scenario played out too many times to ignore anymore?

[Wiwi]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am chewing leather for the developers who still actually care, and it's basically a matter of days before the server begins losing the new population influx to the totally fux0red raid scene. Hasn't this exact scenario played out too many times to ignore anymore?

I'm pretty sure that most of these new players will burn out once they start hitting hell levels (30, or 35). If anything, the raid changes could possibly bring back a decent number of players who tired of the lopsided nature of things and quit because of it.

[criddopher]

All great plans. I would say disclose the simulated patch when it happens no warning before hand. It would allow for more skill in mobilizing your guild and getting to targets needed in order to actually get them.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by criddopher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All great plans. I would say disclose the simulated patch when it happens no warning before hand. It would allow for more skill in mobilizing your guild and getting to targets needed in order to actually get them.

If by skill you mean abandoning whatever you were doing in RL, I agree with you.