|
|
|
|
#1
12-07-2012, 02:34 AM
|
||||
|
Quote:
That is the thread Splorf mentioned.
__________________
 | |||
|
|
||||
|
#2
12-07-2012, 03:18 AM
|
|||
|
I'm surprised no one mentioned the sustain of a Shaman in oh-shit situations as well.
Yes, both will have clarity but in the situation of things going south, a Shaman will outlast a Cleric in terms of throughput (Cannibalize ... ). I will admit, as it stands right now, without Torpor, a Cleric is obviously a faster exp duo using the "CH pet" methodology. Utilizing the "let the pet die once he is low and re-charming one" has worked extremely well with an enchanter friend and I with my current sub-par heals. Slightly faster killing or take the added benefit of a slightly better slow (also giving the Enchanter less to worry about), the best magical debuffer in the game ... and @ 60, Torpor. The Ench/Shaman duo changes entirely @ 60 with Torpor and this is what pushes this duo to be the best in the game next to a Monk/Shaman. Prior to 60, Ench/Cleric is very strong but once both sit at 60, it's Ench/Shaman or Monk/Shaman all day. | ||
|
|
|||
|
#3
12-07-2012, 08:58 AM
|
|||
|
Monk/shaman is a good duo, but I don't think it's anywhere near as effective as cleric/enchanter in zones where you can field a decent pet. The flexibility of not needing a pet is nice, but that would affect both shaman/enc and cleric/enc.
A hasted 48-50 pet is going to outdps (especially when Torpor is the main heal) and out-tank a 60 monk. Shaman/Enchanter is better than Cleric/Enchanter, but the difference isn't large enough where another duo comes into play for the #2 spot in Kunark. The stacking of MR debuffs combined with rapture is the reason for this duo's dominance over the cleric version. Donal BP (or even just plain old Cheal) on a 8-10k HP pet is pretty absurd when even the toughest shit (that you're duoing) is rounding for 1k. I'm wondering how easy of a time monk/shaman would have with Protector or Korocust (sans Puppet Strings). | ||
|
|
|||
|
#4
12-07-2012, 10:43 AM
|
|||
|
I love how lots of people on here are all goo gaw about having Enchanters charm a high level pet. Best combo in the game crap. Yeah sure if it doesn't kill u and the rest of the group. Like Enchanters never die in this game.
There are like 6 Enchanters in this game can keep a pet going, CC and pull. What the Cleric is going to pull? They can but its not really very effective. I am not saying they are a bad combo. Just that is sounds a lot better on paper than it does in reality. There is a reason Monk Shaman is the king of the hill combo in this game. It just works if the Monk is worth a damn. FD is a God Send pure and simple. | ||
|
|
|||
|
#5
12-07-2012, 11:04 AM
|
||||
|
Quote:
You can't belittle enchanters by saying they aren't dying, and then proclaim FD as the end all be all. FD gets resisted, FD will not save you from wall caster mobs, FD will not save you from potential AoE's that will break it, and FD willl not save you from Icecometing Krups in Seb, or even Kurs in LGuk. It will also not save you from 3+ HTing mobs in a pack. There's a reason some monks refuse to pull inside some Seb areas without geting buffed to the teeth first. With ench/cler you can get more things that people realise. You get double lull'ing classes. Access to regular invis and IVU. Clerics can nuke better than shamans in regards to undead mobs. And if your enchanter dies while trying to lull break a camp, you pull his corpse back a little, res him and you're back into it without a huge hassle. If your monk dies inside Chef or in HS south, you're gonna have a much bigger problem than a simple /consent and a smoke break. Pets were, are, and WILL be a lot better than player classes in specific departments. From Kedge, to Plane of Air, people have been killing mobs with chain petting / charming , that they would otherwise have no chance to do so. You think that's bad? Wait till Velious comes out.. Because there WILL be charmed Giants :P
__________________
Lorraine Solamnus
Knight of Mithaniel ~=< Hated, Adored ; But never ignored >=~  | |||
|
|
||||
|
#6
12-07-2012, 11:59 AM
|
||||
|
Quote:
Webrunner I honestly believe myself to be only an average enchanter as far as things go and I can tell you unequivocally that I can duo with a cleric, manage a pet, slow most mobs, do crowd control, AND pull effectively (for a duo) Most enchanters I've leveled with 50+ can likewise do the same. It's obviously a lot harder in bigger groups as things die a lot faster and you need to spend more time pulling, more time buffing, etc. But lull with high charisma is an extremely powerful pulling mechanic, and AE mesmerization is an extremely powerful ass saver for the very rare cases when lull crit resists. Enchanters die all the time, but I'll tell you its usually not when theyre grinding exp and duoing with their favorite healer. I honestly don't remember the last time I died grinding with my usual duo partner, and we level as a duo almost exclusively in HS wings at this point. I'm sure a monk/shaman could do the same, and probably for similar results. Monk/Shaman is an awesome duo. I don't know if its a "better" duo than cleric/ench or shaman/ench they're all certainly overpowered beyond all reason. But to say that ench/(healer) is only an excellent duo on paper is absurd and that most of the server sucks too bad to pull it off is equally laughable. Ench/cleric or shaman is massively overpowered for the same reason monk/shaman is -- you have a full group's worth of functionality crammed down into two people. -Propo Fol | |||
|
|
||||
|
#7
12-07-2012, 12:35 PM
|
||||
|
So the reason enc/shm is so powerful is for high end mobs its all about getting them slowed. Tash+malo+rapture sometimes+two players slowing is just extremely useful for high level mobs like the Protector that resist up the ass. I'm pretty sure that Svenn and I could have a relatively decent kill rate on the Protector, Tolapumj, or Korocust (80%+) as a duo - we killed them all on our first try. Monk/Shaman just doesn't have that: you're counting on the monk to proc his tash stick and even then you have less MR debuff than an enchanter and only one player slowing. Even on a relatively easy mob like the fungi king I think Monk/Shaman has like a 10% chance of just getting screwed by resists.
For leveling I think Cleric/Enc is about the same Shaman/Enc just with different playstyles. It's also extremely effective on mobs <=55 where the enchanter can do reasonable CC on breaks. Both will level much faster than Monk/Shaman: a L60 for example an epic monk with shaman haste is probably 60-70 dps while a charmed krup is 100+. I think Monk/Shaman really starts to rock in Velious, where the monks get higher AC and better weapons and Enchanters take it up the butt with high MR. Although if the server stays classic there will be a few months of giant rampage in Kael.
__________________
Raev | Loraen | Sakuragi <The A-Team> | Solo Artist Challenge | Farmer's Market
Quote:
| |||
|
|
||||
|
#8
12-07-2012, 12:42 PM
|
||||
|
Quote:
| |||
|
|
||||
|
#9
12-07-2012, 01:47 PM
|
||||
|
Quote:
Loraen you'll always be a pal and I would normally feel some sympathy but every time I recall zoning into Velks Lab trying to solo grind some AAs in peace during off-peak server hours, and then finding a fucking direcharmed dog on each spider spawn, it's 'zero ducks' time >.<
__________________
Lorraine Solamnus
Knight of Mithaniel ~=< Hated, Adored ; But never ignored >=~ | |||
|
|
||||
|
#10
12-07-2012, 12:35 PM
|
||||
|
Quote:
I don't really group (do duo with a cleric and shaman a lot though) since I can solo every named in Sebilis that isn't Emp, Tola, or Protector (and those are easy duos) so why split the $$$. Oddly enough, I'd probably pay way less attention in a full group making a epic hasted 48-50 frog a lot more dangerous. FD is nice, but if you know what you're doing (or just invis pull, lol) - pulling isn't a huge issue over here. ToT makes it easy to pull, buff, CC, slow (for bigger mobs), and keep a pet as ToT eliminates the need to med. | |||
|
|
||||
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
