Camping Raid Mobs... gone on long enough ?!

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by Imsetta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is the question I would like answered. I believe that guilds are camping the end game raid mobs for the items they drop. Is this the case? Or is it for the trill of the kill. Some have said people are just killing them to keep others from killing them.

Raid guilds camp end-game mobs for two reasons:

a) Loot to gear up members to prep for the next tier of content

b) Denial of loot to the opposition to prevent them from prepping for the next tier of content

Non-raid guild players participate in raids for two reasons:

a) A chance at a random on loot to improve themselves

b) The thrill of the kill

However, even for non-raid guild players to enjoy (b) there has to be (a). People like to be able to say things like "I was there for the raid when Vox dropped three eyepatches! No, I didn't win one, but damn, that was cool"

I think you'd find some short-term but limited interest in an event to kill Vox or Naggy that resulted in no loot. Some players would tag along for the 'thrill of the kill', but not many. Especially since most p1999 players have already killed Vox and Naggy on live, I would presume.

[Imsetta]

just trying to think of a fun remedy to a problem I have already said can not be solved =P

All games are this way, the people that play the most get the most.

Sorry

Lanys T`Vyl

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Imsetta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

just trying to think of a fun remedy to a problem I have already said can not be solved =P

All games are this way, the people that play the most get the most.

Sorry

Lanys T`Vyl

I think many people are having issues with the rule set because it doesn't reward those who play the most, but only those willing to leave their PCs on overnight for 3-4 days and not use their chars. AFKing at spawns is in direct contrast to "those who play the most."

Could just go FFA with no trains, that way whoever engages first, regardless of who's in there first, gets the first shot with no interference from the other guild(s). This is pretty much how it worked on my old server, and only one guild was able to maintain the sort of discipline and tactics to outwit and outplay all of the other guilds on the server (Prexus was the server and the guild was KTF).

[Spirell]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think many people are having issues with the rule set because it doesn't reward those who play the most, but only those willing to leave their PCs on overnight for 3-4 days and not use their chars. AFKing at spawns is in direct contrast to "those who play the most."

Could just go FFA with no trains, that way whoever engages first, regardless of who's in there first, gets the first shot with no interference from the other guild(s). This is pretty much how it worked on my old server, and only one guild was able to maintain the sort of discipline and tactics to outwit and outplay all of the other guilds on the server (Prexus was the server and the guild was KTF).

The devs could always just enable the raid tool, and allow a full raid's DPS to count toward the kill, that would make FFA a decent option, but with the way EQ was back in classic, a decently constructed KS group for one raid will win all the time, and the guild that put all the effort into tanking and healing would get screwed. Personally like I mentioned earlier, I think just releasing kunark will solve a lot of this, and until then let the guilds do their camping. Once there is stuff for you to do at max level, camping becomes less of an option.

[Imsetta]

I can not speak for any dev/guides, and I my self stay out of anything that I cant handle on my own. On this subject I just wanted to open up ideas.

As for the FFA let me think.

I see no problem with a FFA system if control can be kept. By control I mean people need not train others and cause any kind of death. So if people could keep control and everyone could follow an engagement rule, this could work. But I can see if the rules change this forum would change to a Flame of Guild **** stole the kill from guild ****. We would have pics of people talking and a mob dead and people complaining. And then it would still come down to guilds camping the raid mobs, and because they have there raid force all together there its still easier for them to attack something before other people can assemble and get to the mob. Or you will have 2 or 3 guilds camping a mob and all keeping full buffed and ready to aggro. This would not solve the problem would it?

Lanys T`Vyl

[PhantomRogue]

Originally Posted by Imsetta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can not speak for any dev/guides, and I my self stay out of anything that I cant handle on my own. On this subject I just wanted to open up ideas.

Heres my Idea.

Why not have the raid mobs drop 'shards.' And those shards used to open up a "fabled" instance of that zone. Drops are buffed (maybe an extra 50% of stats?), mobs are buffed/changed/etc.

And this zone has a global cooldown of... 18 days or something (figure 2.5 times the respawn of the non-instaced raid boss, to give other guilds a chance at the raid mob without competing against the guilds that 'farm' it).

Now, im not sure if the whole raid setup is active (haven't gotten that high on this server), but have the raid formed, the leader 'activate the quest' and the shards are consumed. And then you are all able to click a portal, and zone into the fabled instance.

Still gives a long time for people to compete over non-instanced mobs. And kill trash for drops. And it removes the 'perma-camping' of the raid mobs which lets new and upcoming guilds a chance to raid as well.

And, it allows guilds not to become Zerg fests and leave people perma camped onto of raid spawns, since the benefit of said raid boss is lessened. As well as giving other guilds a chance to recruit and work up strats instead of just leveling, and joining one of the top 2 guilds. Guilds can work from low and become one of the top, not just absorb into them and become larger and larger guilds.

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raid guilds camp end-game mobs for two reasons:

a) Loot to gear up members to prep for the next tier of content

Wow, this is completely wrong in this case.
Everyone on the server knows what gear and spells will be available in the next expansion. Everyone knows that the level cap will go up by ten. I am willing to say that 50% of the gear that the current raid guilds are wearing will be replaced within the first few weeks. 90% after a month or two.

(The exception to this would be some resist gear, jewelry, mage focus items, etc.)


As far as weapons go: They will all be considered shite, used for alts or sold to new players for cheap.

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, this is completely wrong in this case.
Everyone on the server knows what gear and spells will be available in the next expansion. Everyone knows that the level cap will go up by ten. I am willing to say that 50% of the gear that the current raid guilds are wearing will be replaced within the first few weeks. 90% after a month or two.

(The exception to this would be some resist gear, jewelry, mage focus items, etc.)


As far as weapons go: They will all be considered shite, used for alts or sold to new players for cheap.

Of course the current tier of items will be replaced quickly when Kunark opens. However, clearly a guild who has farmed the current end-game loot extensively will have an advantage in defeating Kunark bosses over a guild that has not. The combination of making ourselves more powerful along with preventing the competition from becoming more powerful is a strong incentive for continuing to farm content while waiting for new content to open up.

The raiding game has always been about the intra-guild competition, not the content. This is clearly apparent on p1999, and was very clear on The Combine as well. Raid guilds strive to be #1 on the server. They accomplish this by being the first to defeat new content, by being the ones to kill the most existing content every spawn cycle, by having members with the most HP/Mana, etc. They stay #1 by denying content to the competition.

The content is simply the scorecard used to determine the guild rankings. It's just like sports... The draw is the competition between the teams as the season progresses. The individual scoring events (touchdowns etc) are simply the metric used to compare the teams involved in the competition. "Touchdowns" are not the reason people watch football. Similarly, "content" is not the reason raiding guilds raid.

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of course the current tier of items will be replaced quickly when Kunark opens. However, clearly a guild who has farmed the current end-game loot extensively will have an advantage in defeating Kunark bosses over a guild that has not.

Maybe... but what raid guild isn't almost fully (if not fully) raid geared already?

Hate and Fear have been farmed for months by everyone.

The bosses themselves don't drop anything that will give you an advantage in Kunark, I challenge you to give me an example otherwise.

I already pointed out that the weapons will all be scraped and HP/MANA items all get better in Kunark.

Practically everything that Naggy and Vox drops is tradeable so you can expect that to be handed over to twink alts.

Sure I would like a clicky clarity stick, but I'll get one eventually and it's hardly anything I NEED.

So all you really have left are the planar armor pieces that people will obviously be wearing the longest... which also happen to be the most common of the planar gear.

I'm merely saying that if you think killing these classic bosses will give you an advantage when Kunark comes out you are delusional.

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm merely saying that if you think killing these classic bosses will give you an advantage when Kunark comes out you are delusional.

So you are saying that day one of Kunark, when guilds are racing for Gore, Sev, Tal, VS, etc. a guild that is fully outfitted in current end-game gear has no advantage over a guild that isn't?