A few bard questions

[Arrisard]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. More curiosity than anything, since I don't think my L18 bard is going to be getting his epic any time soon, but is the epic primary only? Not being able to use the Breath of Harmony would suck.

The Singing Short Sword can be equipped in both the primary and secondary slots. The innate instrument effects will only be utilized when equipped in the primary slot until just a bit before Luclin when it can be held in either hand and still have the instrument bonuses applied.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. My bard has been using Kelin's AoE Mez to do some ridiculous shit. But the duration seems really horrible - maybe 1 tick instead of two? If I am mezzing, I cannot twist ANY songs. If I am tanking/mezzing and I get bashed, it's open season on me. Any suggestions? Or does this mez just cap at L30 like the wiki claims and everyone uses the single target one?

No idea what the actual level cap may be on it, when it was changed I was already 60 and never looked into it.

Kelin has always had a short duration around 3 seconds. Barring resists, you could lock any number of mobs down but you'd have to constantly manually reapply it. It was a dangerous song to use, though, as you mentioned. One resist could ruin your day proportionately to the number of mobs you were mezing. The resist factor is by design, there's a thread around somewhere for it, but it's intentionally useless, to sum it up. If you're still at a level where it's reliable, have at it because it won't last.

Otherwise you'd have silly situations, like oh say, pulling VS to the zoneline and having 2 bards control the entire train/zone with no real danger. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. What are some standard group twists at L20-30? I've been doing Anthem, Regen, Chords mostly. Is guardian rhythms worth it? Seems to be just a bit of MR/AC.

What you're fighting and who you're with will determine ultimately what you will be playing. I know that's a bit of a cop out answer, but it's true, even with the greatest hits like regens and haste. The more you level, the more songs will have overlapping effects with not only your groupmates' buffs/debuffs, but your own songs as well. Just know your songs and trust your judgement.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. Looking ahead, is it just me or is the 32 bard mana song really crappy? It seems to be a pulse of mana, so if I am not tanking (been tanking a lot recently, <3 fungi) and doing a 3-4 song twist that's 1 mana pulse every 1-2 ticks, or clearly worse than clarity.

It is what it is. Stacking the pulses, it's better in mana regeneration than clarity (actually better than C2 at it's leveled max), but obviously you can't play anything else in that circumstance which is more for downtime unless you're super caster heavy. In a 4 song twist, one pulse of CCC out of four is still around 2.5 mana per tick at base value. I really don't like to say it's better or worse, since it stacks - infact it "stacks" with everything, which lets it stay relevant even after you get the 55 upgrade.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

5. The server ticks don't seem synchronized like they used to be. Like a year ago I had a different bard (never mind) and when I would use Chords I would get like 5 lines of aoe damage spam at once. Now it doesn't happen that way. This makes the Kelin's problem worse because the mobs will break mez at different times and I will just get chain bashed for 10 seconds.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

6. It seems like bash interrupts my songs even when I'm not stunned? WTF is up with that.

Yeah, those suck.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also I just found out the Psalm of Warm and Elemental Rhythms don't stack. So what do you guys play for resists during dragon raids?

The Psalms don't really truly become relevant until you get your hands on an SSS, to be honest. Pre-epic it was pretty standard, though, with the rhythms set and a drum. As for which songs I play during which dragons - again, it depends. The particular effects of certain AEs like dispelling, rune components of certain songs, buff/debuff order on myself/groupmates, and song range order are the biggest concerns that have to be considered.

[Splorf22]

Wow thanks for the answers guys. I am definitely enjoying Dramor right now as basically I get to play both my warrior and enchanter at once, albeit in a slightly gimped way ;D

So stacking Guardian/Elemental Rhythms with Selos drum at 60 should give 35*2.4 = 85CR/FR/DR/PR and 170MR ? The MR number is impressive but the other resists not so much. Combined with Circle and DS that only comes to +162. Somehow I expected more. I guess for say the Queen in Chardok I'd just sing Psalm of Warmth and melee.

Right now at 25 my base twist for melee mobs is Selos Consonant Chain, Psalm of Warmth, Healing, and Denon's (when grouped with an enchanter, otherwise swap the Psalm for Jonathan's / Anthem). For Casters I tried using resist songs but I never resist anything even with 100+, so now I basically just spam Kelins (I guess Crissions in 3 more levels) and pray for interrupts as mobs at 25 cast pretty fast.

Four more questions:

7) How well do bards tank at 50+ ? At 25 obviously the fungi fixes everything. At least in my experience on Sak whether or not the mob is slowed totally annihilates any AC/HP difference, and it really doesn't seem that high anyway: our wiki quotes Arrisard at 880AC, Sakuragi at 960, and Sworen at 980 (although all those numbers are off, Sak is like 985 in raid gear). I would think that a Bard with a fungi tanking a 35% slowed mob would do substantially better than a Warrior tanking a 0% slowed mob, plus the bard has no aggro issues with Selos CC. On Sak I was never able to taunt off a bard doing Selos CC. Granted Sak had like 130 unbuffed dex, but it feels like SCC might have the same aggro as a regular slow?

8) Do the unsynchronized ticks make mez/charm durations more consistent? (Model A: every bard song lasts 18 seconds, or Model B: the NPCs are on separate threads which so its even more random than before).

9) Stop dodging my question arrisard! It's reasonable that there is no 1-size-fits-all set of songs, but there should be a few different common twists for different levels/situations.

10) Assuming that you are grouped with an enchanter/shaman and don't have to sing haste, is the Epic really that much better than the Breath of Harmony for xp groups? Its 80% on the stats that arguably are the least important (no mana regen, no attack/movement slow, no haste) and you lose an entire song in the Niv's click. 10/18 probably isn't that much worse than 16/26 for melee damage, although of course you are losing out on a ton of stats.

[Arrisard]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

7) How well do bards tank at 50+ ? At 25 obviously the fungi fixes everything. At least in my experience on Sak whether or not the mob is slowed totally annihilates any AC/HP difference, and it really doesn't seem that high anyway: our wiki quotes Arrisard at 880AC, Sakuragi at 960, and Sworen at 980 (although all those numbers are off, Sak is like 985 in raid gear). I would think that a Bard with a fungi tanking a 35% slowed mob would do substantially better than a Warrior tanking a 0% slowed mob, plus the bard has no aggro issues with Selos CC. On Sak I was never able to taunt off a bard doing Selos CC. Granted Sak had like 130 unbuffed dex, but it feels like SCC might have the same aggro as a regular slow?

In a pure tanking comparison, bards fall a tad behind rangers while still being much better than priests or intelligence casters. But like you said, there's more to it than a straight skills comparison when you take into account our various utilities if they are a part of an "either-or" comparison. A consistent 35% slow is a scale turner on it's own, as you said. I think we're very comparable if not preferable in that kind of "either-or" situation, especially in groups without heavy slows.

Overall I've never had trouble tanking anything that was typical of an exp group for my level, but I also focused more on AC HP and wasn't one of them DEXCHAAGI hippies. With a few gear switches I have on me, I can pull 940ish AC with similar HP (2400ish) but lose out a bit on the resists/dual wield. I could do even more AC, but then I'd start eating more into my big HP slots and those trade offs just don't seem as appealing since bards come light on HP. While still tough, juggs are a bit less of the wrecking force they once were.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

8) Do the unsynchronized ticks make mez/charm durations more consistent? (Model A: every bard song lasts 18 seconds, or Model B: the NPCs are on separate threads which so its even more random than before).

It's been pretty consistent for me, I really only get message desyncs on large PBAE spam.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

9) Stop dodging my question arrisard! It's reasonable that there is no 1-size-fits-all set of songs, but there should be a few different common twists for different levels/situations.

Mes and DA are always up, and both Selo's if outdoor or lull + invis if indoor. Sometimes I'll switch in charm for lull or invis or one of the selo's if it's called for.

Then for the other four slots in experience groups, cover any snares/slows/hastes that need to be done, then regen(s), and then I add whatever pieces of flair suit the group the best depending on the melee/caster ratio in the group or resists if it's a caster rich mob area. Raids, honestly, is mostly stacking mana in downtime, then maxing a single resist or two during the fight and some regen/rune if everyone hasn't maxed their buff slots by then. Soloing, that can go a whole bunch of different ways depending on what you want to do.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

10) Assuming that you are grouped with an enchanter/shaman and don't have to sing haste, is the Epic really that much better than the Breath of Harmony for xp groups? Its 80% on the stats that arguably are the least important (no mana regen, no attack/movement slow, no haste) and you lose an entire song in the Niv's click. 10/18 probably isn't that much worse than 16/26 for melee damage, although of course you are losing out on a ton of stats.

Unless the bard has no chance to melee at all every couple minutes for some reason, an epic bard will replace shamans on haste duty as well [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyways.

The real deal breaker for me with Niv's was that it didn't stack with Psalm of Mystic Shielding. Pre-epic that song is ok, but becomes much more appealing when you have that singing mod available on the epic and becomes worth playing on it's own in the twist rotation and simply makes up for the unmoddable Niv's click and a whole lot more, enough to justify it that it'd get played for a lot of general exp group situations and any raid that called for MR. Otherwise ultimately you could just swap the BoH in for the old switch'n'click and have it all. Well, when it isn't busy not stacking with Shield of Song, either. So, yeah, I sold it a couple weeks after I got the epic.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

11) I seem to be missing notes ALL the time. Like if I had to guess I miss notes a solid 25% of time on Solons Song of the Sirens at 27.

I haven't done any parsing, but my gut doesn't feel like DEX contributes enough to justify the loss of stats you'd have to give up to gain a significant decrease in missed notes. Even if I did I don't have anything to compare it to from Live to see if it's right or wrong, but it'd still be nice to know just how much that DEX buff helps, or rather confirm my suspicion it doesn't help a lot.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

12) I charm solo a lot on my enchanter so of course I experimented a bit with it on the bard. I have no problem with charming in groups (usually with 1 add i just charm instead of Kelins) but solo it utterly sucks without root. If i snare thing two to make recharming easier, it comes for me and doesn't attack the other. Even 1 add just utterly screws me, although I suppose it gets better with Crissions at 28. I even though well, I can just run away while recharming but it seems the hitboxes here are so fucking big that doesn't work well. I'm curious if anyone has really gotten this to work.

I am terrible at charm soloing. Charm is awesome for me as a pulling and CC tool, but soloing with it the way people describe is just not my thing at all.