Average Player Population by Class and Level - data fun!

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ideally, I'd like to see more games where everybody can be a jack-of-all-trades, not just certain classes. And where you can solve problems using many different methods. But that would be a game that's more skill-based and where you can easily train/untrain. In class-based games, there'd need to be a multi-class system or some way to switch classes on the fly.

They basically tried this exact philosophy in World of Warcraft. In vanilla, all the classes were fairly distinct and you NEEDED certain classes for certain encounters. Then there was a movement at the end of Burning Crusade toward class homogenization, using the tagline, "Bring the player, not the class". They added dual spec which meant many classes could change roles on the fly.

They accomplished their goal in that, for the majority of the playerbase in non-progression raiding or grouping, you could bring nearly any combination of classes and still be viable. I liked that. What I didn't like was how all the classes just felt like different shades of the same color, but it certainly wasn't gamebreaking for me. (For what was gamebreaking, see any internet discussion of WoW, anywhere, ever)

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They basically tried this exact philosophy in World of Warcraft. In vanilla, all the classes were fairly distinct and you NEEDED certain classes for certain encounters. Then there was a movement at the end of Burning Crusade toward class homogenization, using the tagline, "Bring the player, not the class". They added dual spec which meant many classes could change roles on the fly.

They accomplished their goal in that, for the majority of the playerbase in non-progression raiding or grouping, you could bring nearly any combination of classes and still be viable. I liked that. What I didn't like was how all the classes just felt like different shades of the same color, but it certainly wasn't gamebreaking for me. (For what was gamebreaking, see any internet discussion of WoW, anywhere, ever)

Well I just came from EQ2. And I got the distinct impression that the classes were homogenized. For example, the rogues all play the same mostly. When you examine their powers, they have different names and buff different forms of dps, but overall, the way they play is not really different. But I mostly blame the content in the game, not the classes. The content is just too run of the mill. There's no need for diverse skills to overcome it, so they can get away with these cookie-cutter classes that behave similarly.

I ended up playing a Warden because they can heal and do some combat and root and so on. But the only reason they can do lots of things is because early on in the game anybody can tank just about. But if I had continued to play I'd eventually hit a wall and suffer from lacking good defense and dps. Paladins, on the other hand, can tank a lot better. In fact, I almost considered playing a paladin since they at least are more like a hybrid. But overall, in EQ2 the classes all have roles and pretty much stick to them.

When I say jack-of-all-trades, what I'm really getting at is interesting gameplay. By this I mean you're using diverse techniques to solve problems. You're not always doing the same thing. In traditional games a rogue is a rogue and is stuck with it. They solve problems by usually either stabbing something in the back, poisoning it and/or stealing its gold. This is what I disagree with because I think it's too restricting and makes the game boring. Games should be diverse and if they put us in one role too much then there's not enough to keep us interested. So when I say jack-of-all-trades, it's the gameplay I'm prioritizing, not the distribution of skills. If a game could add enough depth to EVERY class then it could work, but not many games are deep enough and so they have to have jack-of-all-trades to keep things compelling. Or you have to box to achieve that feel.

Boxing is a great way to do it, but it's a clumsy and expensive way.

in EQ, ironically, I've always felt that enchanters and necromancers had some diverse gameplay. While they can't tank or track or some other things, they can mez and charm and feign death and other things. Necromancers are more suited for solo-play, though, since they have so many dots. Enchanters, if they're in good content, can be very fun to play. But in bad content they're a chore. As a chanter, I most enjoyed those moments when things got frantic and I had to mez/etc (do crowd control). I enjoy juggling all of their abilities.

Necromancer is best class if you like to go afk and don't like to wait for groups [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] That right there is a big plus. No other class than the monk or sk has the ability to pause the game (FD) and go afk.

I didn't know anything about necromancers or enchanters when I started EQ. I started as a ranger and mostly stuck with that until 2010 (off and on ofc). But evne look back on all of it, I've never been compatible with the necromancer/enchanter lore. I love the forest and love axes and like ranger lore and being a bad*** wildman. So it's just me being honest when I say that wielding swords/axes and/or a bow is right up my ally.

[webrunner5]

[QUOTE=stormlord;767967]

Necromancer is best class if you like to go afk and don't like to wait for groups [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] That right there is a big plus. No other class than the monk or sk has the ability to pause the game (FD) and go afk.

Some classes. Druid comes to mind have Hide ability. Works just as good going AFK for long periods of time.

But you have a good point on Nerco's.

[Pyrion]

Druids per se do not have hide. For a lot of druids it's a racial ability (maxed at 50, so not really reliable). Druids can invis though.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some classes. Druid comes to mind have Hide ability. Works just as good going AFK for long periods of time.

But you have a good point on Nerco's.

I agree that HIDE is a tremendous help for going afk. And this is true for any class that can be a wood elf or a halfling, I think. It's true for rangers (75 max) and rogues (highest skill of any class). While cinvis monsters can break it, I LOVED it and would recommend it to anybody that's making a class that doesn't come with it.

(say, a hafling warrior is good pick... and 90% more exp than a ranger, is swell! at any given time, the ranger gets 60 and the hafling warrior gets 114.5. 114.5/60 = 90%.)

Personally, I think most or all mmorpgs should have something like FD or Hide for every class or skill-combination. I think being able to pause is an important trait of gaming since RL happens a lot.

Something like this allows the game to be as complex as it wants to be without causing you to stay hooked to your computer without being able to go afk. Complex pathing/aggroing/cc/etc. Otherwise, without this you get trapped in the dungeon without a means to easily walk away from the computer.

But I think it has to be looked at carefully so it's not exploitable and doesn't diminish the danger inside the game. To me the danger is everything. If it's not there, I am bored beyond belief. So this whole functionality has to be designed into the game from the ground up so it's adding less unknown variables ripe for abuse.

The danger aspect is why I tended in my past to gravitate towards harsh games or pvp servers. It's just in my blood. It's a bit of thrill seeker. A lot of players don't share this same desire I have for danger. They're not less than me. They're just not as reliant on the need for danger to stay entertained. It's a vice.

[Twilight-Sparkle]

Are Paladins or SK's even capable of maintanking a raid boss? Or do you absolutely NEED a Warrior for that job?

[Danth]

Hybrids are capable of tanking most raid bosses presently in game.** They require considerably more healing than a Warrior, but it can be done and may even be preferable if your raid happens to have abundant healing. Warriors become a lot more necessary for the tougher Velious named.

Danth

**It's possible the hybrids may have tanked all of them, but there are a few I'm unsure of so I won't make the absolute claim.

[Twilight-Sparkle]

Does a Pally need a shield to tank or can they do it with Fiery Avenger/Defender?

I remember hearing something about Pallies being able to use Bash with Avenger or Defender, I just don't know what era it is implemented.