And I raaaaaan, I raaaan so far awaaaayyyy

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Zeelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fennin ro had no set ruleset. It depended on what GM you got. Some said exp wins, some said FTE in different words, and others just didn't want to deal with it and made guilds /random 100 for first attempt prior to engage. The rules here currently are much more consistant than any experience I had on live.

During the life of the server for sure. But Velious/Luclin was alot more xp based, in my memory. I didn't really raid much in early Kunark. Also, trains were almost never enforced as fraps wasnt around and GM's took forever to show up at a raid dispute.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

During the life of the server for sure. But Velious/Luclin was alot more xp based, in my memory. I didn't really raid much in early Kunark. Also, trains were almost never enforced as fraps wasnt around and GM's took forever to show up at a raid dispute.

You're probably right on this one. Velious will fix this particular aspect. Who's tank engaged it first? Who's chain of clerics kept him up? The mobs having considerable amounts of hp won't make them 5 second shitshows of dragon slapfights. New problems will arrive, however.

Pullers will be consistently fucking other pullers. Tormax / statue come to mind on this one especially. Sontalak /klandicar will also cause problems if they are pulled similar to what we see with outdoor dragons now.

Leapfrogging should be back in full effect and have new issues. Who clears the trash before vulak if it means they won't be prepared to engage vulak immediately with a guild on their ass?

These seem to be already covered, however, in the don't steal pulls and don't be a dick method of ruling, which GMs can do fairly well. I just wish we didn't have to be some kinda photojournalism faggots with fraps constantly to get things taken care of.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're probably right on this one. Velious will fix this particular aspect. Who's tank engaged it first? Who's chain of clerics kept him up? The mobs having considerable amounts of hp won't make them 5 second shitshows of dragon slapfights. New problems will arrive, however.

Pullers will be consistently fucking other pullers. Tormax / statue come to mind on this one especially. Sontalak /klandicar will also cause problems if they are pulled similar to what we see with outdoor dragons now.

Leapfrogging should be back in full effect and have new issues. Who clears the trash before vulak if it means they won't be prepared to engage vulak immediately with a guild on their ass?

These seem to be already covered, however, in the don't steal pulls and don't be a dick method of ruling, which GMs can do fairly well. I just wish we didn't have to be some kinda photojournalism faggots with fraps constantly to get things taken care of.

Its easy guilds work between themselves. If guild A is in HoT farming and guild B opens the door to grief them. Guild B will have to deal with a bunch of pissed of Guild A griefers.
It promotes cooperation due to the possibility of interference and mutual destruction.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its easy guilds work between themselves. If guild A is in HoT farming and guild B opens the door to grief them. Guild B will have to deal with a bunch of pissed of Guild A griefers.
It promotes cooperation due to the possibility of interference and mutual destruction.

Not everyone likes spending their weekends being griefed or griefing in retaliation. Some people want to play to have fun in the PvE world and not deal with other people's entitlement issues.

Red99 is wide open.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not everyone likes spending their weekends being griefed or griefing in retaliation. Some people want to play to have fun in the PvE world and not deal with other people's entitlement issues.

Red99 is wide open.

PVP is not the same thing. Some people are entitled to their opinions. Some others would disagree with them.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not everyone likes spending their weekends being griefed or griefing in retaliation. Some people want to play to have fun in the PvE world and not deal with other people's entitlement issues.

Red99 is wide open.

If guilds didn't have GMs to go running back to for every little problem, shit would get worked out like it did for VP.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If guilds didn't have GMs to go running back to for every little problem, shit would get worked out like it did for VP.

Exactly Players are the best police. Empower the players not some "force for good" who might be there one raid and not for the next 15, which forces us to compile evidence and go to trial court to play a game.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly Players are the best police. Empower the players not some "force for good" who might be there one raid and not for the next 15, which forces us to compile evidence and go to trial court to play a game.

What exactly is preventing those same players from policing themselves at this very moment? The server having GMs and a rule set?

Each person in this thread could look beyond the rules that are in effect and reach out to each other and form a new code on top of the server rules, but it seems far too many enjoy the RnF drama to achieve anything without a babysitter.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not everyone likes spending their weekends being griefed or griefing in retaliation. Some people want to play to have fun in the PvE world and not deal with other people's entitlement issues.

Red99 is wide open.

Exhibit A: TMO has a monopoly on VP based mostly because 99% of us don't want to deal with it.

Anyway Ephi, with all due respect I don't think you are fully appreciating the negative impact of GM decisions. I realize that laws and judges are a lot more random than people think, but IMO you should look at every nontrivial GM decision on the raiding scene as a failure of the raid rules.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exhibit A: TMO has a monopoly on VP based mostly because 99% of us don't want to deal with it.

Anyway Ephi, with all due respect I don't think you are fully appreciating the negative impact of GM decisions. I realize that laws and judges are a lot more random than people think, but IMO you should look at every nontrivial GM decision on the raiding scene as a failure of the raid rules.

I think this is a fair point. I think a lesson here, if we pick up nothing else, is that perhaps CT should be modified as an encounter to somehow record who took the first DT, say if and only if, the raid that took the DT engages within 5 seconds. This could then prevent this exact situation.

Even with FTE shouts, CT is still a fight that once you're committed you will wipe if you pull back. You lose your kite, you've got a DT cycle, etc. Otherwise, you risk a rival guild sniping the 2nd DT as it happened here forcing the first to pull back almost inevitably wiping.