Starting a warrior

[Healthcare]

Tempted to start up an Ogre Warrior again but reading this thread makes me almost wonder if it's not better to just put all points into DEX rather than the standard all into STA and maybe the remaining 7 into DEX to have an ogre warrior dex of 77.

Any high high high end warriors (or even ogre warriors) that could chime in on this thought?

[Omnimorph]

Originally Posted by Healthcare [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tempted to start up an Ogre Warrior again but reading this thread makes me almost wonder if it's not better to just put all points into DEX rather than the standard all into STA and maybe the remaining 7 into DEX to have an ogre warrior dex of 77.

Any high high high end warriors (or even ogre warriors) that could chime in on this thought?

High high high end ogre warriors will probably have buffs from shamans so their dex will be at 180+. You can still aim your gear at dex though, ie cloak of shadows as opposed to HBC (lose 45hp, gain 13dex), 5str 5dex rings (or 6agi 6dex rings if needed)

Dex shouldn't be a problem at high end, hp is usually the stat you want to focus on anyway.

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Omnimorph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

High high high end ogre warriors will probably have buffs from shamans so their dex will be at 180+. You can still aim your gear at dex though, ie cloak of shadows as opposed to HBC (lose 45hp, gain 13dex), 5str 5dex rings (or 6agi 6dex rings if needed)

Dex shouldn't be a problem at high end, hp is usually the stat you want to focus on anyway.

yep, personaly i would go fully STA myself and try to get my hands on DEX armor like cloak of shadows (+13 dex?).... procs start to hit more often above the 100 mark.

STR can be completely disregarded till the warrior reaches the planes levels. they aint DPS, they are primary here to shield the rest of the group folks!

if you want to do dmg too, go knight.

[Omnimorph]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you want to do dmg too, go knight.

Funny you should say that, i don't recall what it was like on classic (i was never a tank) but on live a few years back i had an 85 pally, and he was the worst dps out of the 3. Warriors were hands down the best due to dual wield, SK's had dots and HT so could do a bit too, but pallies were rubbish for dps.

I imagine once some genuinely nice 1 handed dps weapons come out for warrior, they will be better dps than knights. Knights have their utilities to make them worthwhile.

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Omnimorph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny you should say that, i don't recall what it was like on classic (i was never a tank) but on live a few years back i had an 85 pally, and he was the worst dps out of the 3. Warriors were hands down the best due to dual wield, SK's had dots and HT so could do a bit too, but pallies were rubbish for dps.

I imagine once some genuinely nice 1 handed dps weapons come out for warrior, they will be better dps than knights. Knights have their utilities to make them worthwhile.

a warrior starts to outdps a knight with 2ssoys at the lvl they start to proc (lvl 39?). up to this lvl the knight will be better in the dps sector since they can wield whatever they want (mith2h comes to mind).

besides that, a knight can go fully STR (=added dmg) on equipment since aggro can be easily generated by their spells. different story on warriors as already mentioned in above posts.

[Omnimorph]

I'll concede SK's will out dmg warriors up till then, but i'm not giving you pallies... no sir... no way [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Dual wielding warrior with equivalent weapons (if we're talking a pally with mith 2h then let's say warrior with 2 yaks) 8/24 dual wielding he'll do more dmg. Pally will hold aggro better so the group might do better overall dps... probably

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Omnimorph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll concede SK's will out dmg warriors up till then, but i'm not giving you pallies... no sir... no way [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Dual wielding warrior with equivalent weapons (if we're talking a pally with mith 2h then let's say warrior with 2 yaks) 8/24 dual wielding he'll do more dmg. Pally will hold aggro better so the group might do better overall dps... probably

Yeah, I don't think anyone cares who or what a warrior can out-DPS if the warrior cannot keep the mob on him. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A warrior who can't keep aggro is like a cleric who forgot to buy his healing spells.

A warrior who can't keep aggro is like a necro who doesn't use pets when he solos.

A warrior who can't keep aggro is like a stripper without tits.

A warrior who can't keep aggro is like a Taco Bell that ran out of tortillas.

please continue with your own analogies...

[mitic]

Originally Posted by Omnimorph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dual wielding warrior with equivalent weapons (if we're talking a pally with mith 2h then let's say warrior with 2 yaks) 8/24 dual wielding he'll do more dmg.

i highly doubt that with a fbss. maybe with a cof, but thats just a maybe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/wtb parses

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a warrior starts to outdps a knight with 2ssoys at the lvl they start to proc (lvl 39?). up to this lvl the knight will be better in the dps sector since they can wield whatever they want (mith2h comes to mind).

besides that, a knight can go fully STR (=added dmg) on equipment since aggro can be easily generated by their spells. different story on warriors as already mentioned in above posts.

The damage tables on knights are lower than warriors, so no matter what their STR is, the ATK it generates on a Pally or SK will still be calculated into actual damage lower than it will on a warrior. Of the 3 tanks, warriors are supposed to out dps the other two, and they definately do post-Classic.

This tuning came into the game sometime during Kunark when it became known that warriors with certain weapons were out DPSing monks with the same weapons.....Jade Maces, as I recall, and as I recall it goes like this:

Melee DPS was rebalanced with Rogue > Monk > Ranger > Warrior > Hybrid (sans ranger) melee dps in mind, when the Rogue has the back of the mob. If, not, swap Monk and Rogue in that. The only hybrid that out-DPSes any pure melee with the same weapon is the Ranger because it is a DPS class and their damage table calculates their damage output accordingly. The rest are at the end of the line, as they should be based on their untility and other methods of doing damage. Among the hybrids it goes Ranger > Bard > Pally / SK. Of all melee classes, Paladins and Shadow Knights are dead last on the totem pole.

And bear in mind that none of this has anything to do with gear, str, buffs or anything else. It's built into the actual math of the combat calculations for each class.

Hybrid tanks are already at a disadvantage AC-wise compared to warriors, they really shouldn't be encouraged to emphasise STR when they should be seeking out every bit of AC on every slot they can. DPS on a tank is really a moot point anyway. Thats what DPS classes are for. Pallys and Shadow Knights that use 2 handers are cheating themselves (and the clerics that heal them) out of a lot of AC by not using shields, IMO.

And that's the problem with Classic Era EQ where tanks are concerned. The ease at which hybrid tanks can hold aggro and the lack of serious consequences in most cases for not gearing properly, confusing rangers and bards with actual tanks, etc. etc. not only gives warriors a bad rap, but it makes it all too easy to get by with things that will abruptly come to an end post 50. A hybrid tank with a 2 hander who sacrificed AC for STR thinking he's DPS too, or a bard or ranger who thinks he can tank is going to get smacked down in high level Kunark so fast it won't even be funny.

[Taluvill]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And that's the problem with Classic Era EQ where tanks are concerned. The ease at which hybrid tanks can hold aggro and the lack of serious consequences in most cases for not gearing properly, confusing rangers and bards with actual tanks, etc. etc. not only gives warriors a bad rap, but it makes it all too easy to get by with things that will abruptly come to an end post 50. A hybrid tank with a 2 hander who sacrificed AC for STR thinking he's DPS too, or a bard or ranger who thinks he can tank is going to get smacked down in high level Kunark so fast it won't even be funny.

TBH, this gimps many new players to EQ and Noobier players because you wont get shit done post 50 with a dps SK/Paladin. You need a Tank pally, a tank sk, or a good war to do a lot of content, especially raiding.