ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sirken, dont you dare say anything about GRRm dying on us before this damn series is finished.

you, me, and every other ASOIAF fan is thinking it, but dont ever speak it lest it may come true.

haha fair enough

[Hasbinbad]

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http://moshi-kun.tumblr.com/

[Dalven]

So have finally caught up on the 20 pages of this thread that I've missed while being behind on the TV show. Moar walls of text.

Originally Posted by Funkutron5000

Rickon's goodbye to Bran was pretty soul crushing. I'm so sad that we only get the one event that kicks off the rest of the awesomness in SoS this season and have to wait another damned 10 months for the rest of it to unfold. Here's hoping for a shot of Stoneheart opening her eyes to end the season!

Originally Posted by Sirken

as far as the GoT show.. i wonder when we see Stoneheart. that bitch appears at the epilogue of book 3, however, Stoneheart is created only a few days after the Red Wedding. so theres no reason why they have to wait til the end

I hope they end the next season with Stoneheart hanging Freys - was an awesome way to ASOS. It doesn't necessarily need to be left that long though, particularly if season 4 runs into AFFC.

[quote=Sirken]fucking Wyman Manderly.... GET YOUR MEAT PIES! [quote]

One of my favourite scenes of ADWD. Manderly stepped up his awesomeness tenfold with that display.

Originally Posted by sirken

id bet money Jack Gleeson has had shit thrown at him on the street.

Guy is awesome as Joffrey.

Originally Posted by Drayc

I honestly don't see Victarion making it out of the next book. I don't see Stannis going down very easy to anyone especially from someone trying to trick him. I think he has just the right amount of "I don't trust people" that he needs.

I don't see his life expectancy being too long but he will be making big ripples. I wonder what effect his mad new hand will have on him. I'm also interested to see how Euron is going to play into this - he clearly knows Victarion hates him yet trusts him on a mission half way around the world. Victarion is planning on betraying Euron, and Euron wouldn't be half the blue lipped clever bastard he is if hasn't predicted and planned for this.

On the subject of blue lips I've heard a crackpot that Euron is actually Pyatt Pree, signified by the blue lips. In AFFC its mentioned that Euron got the warlock juice from 3 warlocks he captured in the East - the theory goes that at this point Pyatt actually killed Euron and is using his form as a means to get to Daenarys in some fashion. I don't know what significance the dragon horn and Victarion's mission plays into this theory. Even if this isn't the case, Euron's end game is something to think about.

Originally Posted by Sirken

i think Moqorro is the strongest red priest we've seen so far as he is the #2 priest in the entire red religion. i've seen a chapter from book 6 (it was a barriston chapter) where Barristan sees the ironborn in Mereen. the problem is that Dany is not in Mereen atm. so that gives Barristan and Victarion a common goal (they are both trying to get to Dany), and will allow them to work together to either find her or kill her harpy husband and his minions. Eventually Dany will return to mereen after her dragon kills Khal Jhoqo (might be spelled wrong) and she takes his khalasar (they follow power and dragons = power). i would believe this would give enough time for the story to some how get Tyrion and Jorah back to Mereen as well so that they can reunite with Dany before she sails off to westeros on Victarion's ships, at which time i imagine Tyrion will tell Dany about Aegon

There have been a number of mentions of the "Demon Road" between Meereen and Volantis - I get the feeling we might see some of this before Dany gets back to Westeros. I'm not convinced that Victarion and however many of his ships survive the battle will be enough to take an all conquering force back to Westeros. Particularly if Dany picks up the Dothraki as well.

Originally Posted by Sirken

i know ALOT of people think Coldhands is Benjen, and that would make it impossible to cut Coldhands from the show. BUT, Coldhands CANNOT be Benjen, because Benjen has not nearly been dead long enough.

I think however we see Benjen he's going to be in a bit of a mess. He's been gone a long time, too long to be running in the far north amongst the Others guerilla style. I don't think he's dead but he's definitely gonna be in some kind of fucked up situation. I like the idea of Coldhands being the Night King.

Originally Posted by K|mm Barely

In the books I felt it was implied though not outright mentioned that Theon got his dick chopped off.

Aye this is the case. I'm not particularly enjoying Theon's descent into Reek, it can be some pretty difficult viewing. I do like that they haven't held back on Ramsay's craziness though. I don't see how they are going to keep this up for another 2 seasons until Reek rejoins the story in ADWD.

Originally Posted by Sirken

and speaking of the show, A+ job on the merging of Edric and Gendry. Edric was sent away to Lys and out of the story. Gendry does nothing for a bit, so he fills in for Edric on dragonstone, and then should end up back with Thoros and the brotherhood and the Gendry story can continue as planned.

Yeah, when they pulled Gendry out I was a bit like wtf, but I can see how they are going to pull this back together and its not badly done at all.

Some other stuff:

Was interesting seeing Robb's wife at the Red Wedding. One of the theories floating around is that Jeyne Westerling is actually pregnant and is being hidden from the Lannisters (based of a lot of vague clues about varying descriptions of hips and numbers of Westerling daughters. What impact it would have relatively I'm not sure, or why her parents who I always thought of as being involved in the Red Wedding would be helping her hid it.)

Robb's proclamation about his heir - in the books he draws up a succession plan in the event of his death and sends it of with one of the Mormont chicks to Howland Reed at Greywater Watch. This is generally thought to be Jon after the discussion he has with Catelyn about it. I don't remember seeing this in the TV series.

Asha (or whatever she is called on the show) is off to the Dreadfort to rescue Theon. This is a bit of a departure from her attitude in the books and a bit of a change to her storyline - I wonder where they are going with this?

Can anyone think of any other examples of changes made to the show which may affect what we know/predict the book storyline will go?

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Dalven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can anyone think of any other examples of changes made to the show which may affect what we know/predict the book storyline will go?

yea.. everything to do with Rickon after Ramsay's men burnt down Winterfell

[Dalven]

Originally Posted by Sirken

I "hope" you are right. but from a financial/producer point of view, its a waste of money to have an actress under contract, and only use her for the last 10 min of the last episode. so we shall see.

Another fair point on the realities of TV production. If Season 4 covers the period of time in the latter half of book 3 and the early part of book 4 I don't really know how they'll fit in more than a couple of dead Cat appearances. Maybe they'll show this from Gendry's perspective if they can get him back to the Brotherhood without it being to contrived.

Originally Posted by Sirken

define long. will he grow to be an old man, probably not. but none of Dany's people are sailors, and none of them are pirates. dont forget it wasnt exactly an easy peaceful voyage to sail out to slavers bay. Dany needs Victarion to get back to Westeros. theres simply no other option for her to go to westeros (short of GRRM introducing a new character). on the flip side, Victarion needs Dany as well. Euron's plans do not include Victarion past a certain point and Victarion is well aware of that. im 100% convinced that Vic helps Dany to Westeros in exchange for (fill in the blank).

True, I'm maybe not giving the Iron Born enough credit here. Victarion helping Dany get back to Westeros is a given - maybe I'm giving Euron too much credit but I would have thought he would anticipate Victarion's betrayal, his hatred of Euron isn't a secret. Euron couldn't have predicted Victarion's smoking hand, I'm interested to see what effect Moqorro's magic will have on Victarion.

Originally Posted by Sirken

never heard this theory.. but i kinda like it in a "i'm going to look into this" kind of way. ill let u know if i can dig up anything fun/useful.

I'm sure I read about it on the Westeros forums - in fairness every possible outcome has probably been debated a thousand times over there. The fact that Euron is drinking warlock juice in the first place has got to be placing some significance behind his plan other than simply conquering/plundering the south.

Originally Posted by Sirken

i dont recall the demon road at the end of book 5, Victarion is in Slavers Bay and can see Mereen. there is nothing between him and the city at that point. the only battle awaiting him is on land, in Mereen (we know this also based on the Barriston chapter (bk6) that GRRM released on his website). we also know that Victarion has over 90 ships, but that most of them are trade galleys being run by skeleton crews. mathematically, and assuming they are using ships from the 1600s or early 1700s, i dont see how you can fit more than 27,000 people into 90 ships. 52,000 if everybody sits in somebody elses lap. Dany should have roughly 8,000 unsullied, 2,000 secondsons, 3 dragons, about ~40,000 Dothraki (assuming Jhoqo kept most of Drogos khalasar together after Drogo's death. Who knows i suppose.

I'm sure it was in the Tyrion chapters - possibly when he was in Volantis or when he was with Connington and Aegon discussing how they were going to get the Golden Company to Meereen or possibly both. Needing to do another read of the books this year to refresh my memory!

Originally Posted by Sirken

i use to subscribe to this. but GRRM said in an interview after S3E9 that the mismatched descriptions could be chalked up to him making a mistake, OR to Catelyn and Jaime having different opinions about what consitutes "good child bearing hips". but yea, in the books, her mom plotted with Tywin because her family is sworn banner of the lannisters.

I've also seen that. Another connection I've wondered about is between the Westerling wife and the witch that curses Cersei - again this is half remembered but if I recall correctly is that its mentioned that the Westerling Lord married beneath himself to a wealthy trader family of foreign descent from Lannisport as the Westerlings are skint. I can't quite remember if the witch fits in with this but I seem to remember making the connection that the Westerling wife was her grand daughter or something. Whether that is the case or if it even has any relevance is debatable.

Originally Posted by Sirken

this one bothers me a lot, as ive been waiting on word of what happened with this since book 3. i have to imagine it wont come up in the books again if it was cleared to be cut out of the show.

It must come up again - with the Reeds connections to the Starks and the possibility of other knowledge about Jon we've got to be getting some input from Howland Reed somewhere down the line.

Originally Posted by Sirken

yea.. everything to do with Rickon after Ramsay's men burnt down Winterfell

I think I'm missing something - not sure what you are getting at here

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Dalven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another fair point on the realities of TV production. If Season 4 covers the period of time in the latter half of book 3 and the early part of book 4 I don't really know how they'll fit in more than a couple of dead Cat appearances. Maybe they'll show this from Gendry's perspective if they can get him back to the Brotherhood without it being to contrived.

i imagine he will get back as thats where gendry is in the books and hes finished with his edric storm role. we shouldnt see too much stoneheart. she needs to be mysterious in way. and i agree we'd see it from gendrys PoV.

Originally Posted by Dalven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True, I'm maybe not giving the Iron Born enough credit here. Victarion helping Dany get back to Westeros is a given - maybe I'm giving Euron too much credit but I would have thought he would anticipate Victarion's betrayal, his hatred of Euron isn't a secret. Euron couldn't have predicted Victarion's smoking hand, I'm interested to see what effect Moqorro's magic will have on Victarion.

i dont think he expects Vic to survive. and if he does, i expect he will continue to send Vic on errands away from the iron islands. the hand will be interesting for sure. but i dont expect Moqorro to stay with Vic. he was sent to seek out Dany, and Moqorro is using Vic to as a way to get where he needs to go.

Originally Posted by Dalven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sure I read about it on the Westeros forums - in fairness every possible outcome has probably been debated a thousand times over there. The fact that Euron is drinking warlock juice in the first place has got to be placing some significance behind his plan other than simply conquering/plundering the south.

didnt look yet, but still really curious on this. really love where your head is at

Originally Posted by Dalven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've also seen that. Another connection I've wondered about is between the Westerling wife and the witch that curses Cersei - again this is half remembered but if I recall correctly is that its mentioned that the Westerling Lord married beneath himself to a wealthy trader family of foreign descent from Lannisport as the Westerlings are skint. I can't quite remember if the witch fits in with this but I seem to remember making the connection that the Westerling wife was her grand daughter or something. Whether that is the case or if it even has any relevance is debatable.

honestly the first time i heard this, but ill look into it because im interested. but im honestly starting to think we the fans built robbs wife into a much more important person than GRRM did.

Originally Posted by Dalven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It must come up again - with the Reeds connections to the Starks and the possibility of other knowledge about Jon we've got to be getting some input from Howland Reed somewhere down the line.

must it? stannis essentially made the same offer to Jon, so its out there regardless. and honestly, we have all seen how well a piece of paper holds up versus the lannisters (unless of course it was written by Tywin).



ill add to this, just wanted to touch on it and bump the thread [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Dalven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sure I read about it on the Westeros forums - in fairness every possible outcome has probably been debated a thousand times over there. The fact that Euron is drinking warlock juice in the first place has got to be placing some significance behind his plan other than simply conquering/plundering the south.

so, in book 4,

Euron returned to the isles the day after Balon's death. The timing of his return was questioned by some. He claimed to have traveled all over the world during his exile, including a trip to the feared ruins of Valyria. He also captured and holds hostage several warlocks of Qarth, who may have coached him in black magic.

couldnt find much on demon road, but didnt really look hard, seems it was only ever mentioned twice, both in book 5. chapters 6 & 16

The Valyrian road that connects Volantis to Meereen, going east from Volantis, is commonly known as the demon road because it is such a dangerous way. It runs through Mantarys and the runes of Bhorash.

as for robbs wife being related to maggy the frog, is it possible that theories got mixed up because cersei went with her friend Jeyne to see the woodswitch?

As a girl, Cersei Lannister sought Maggy after hearing rumours about her magical powers. Cersei and her friends Jeyne Farman and Melara Hetherspoon went to her during the tourney held in honour of King Aerys II's visit to the West, at which Cersei became enamoured of Prince Rhaegar.

Jeyne fled the scene at the sight of Maggy's yellow eyes. Maggy initially refused to tell the futures of the remaining girls, but grudgingly agreed faced with Cersei's threats. She allowed Cersei three questions and made the prophecy of the valonqar (High Valyrian for "little brother"), which haunted Cersei thereafter. When Melara took her turn, Maggy predicted that she would die young, and hinted that it would be by Cersei's hand. Dissatisfied, Cersei threw a jar of potion into Maggy's eyes and fled, leaving Maggy to curse them both.

Prophecies

Cersei's queenship: A younger, more beautiful queen will be Cersei's undoing.
Cersei:"When will I wed the prince?"
Maggy:"Never. You will wed the king."
Cersei:"I will be queen, though?"
Maggy:"Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."


Cersei's children: Cersei will outlast her children and die by the hands of the valonqar.
Cersei:"Will the king and I have children?"
Maggy:"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."
Maggy:"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." ”


Melara's marriage: She later fell down a well and drowned.
Melara:""Will I marry Jaime?"
Maggy:"Not Jaime, nor any other man, Worms will have your maidenhead. Your death is here tonight, little one. Can you smell her breath? She is very close."

[Sirken]

I hope they end the next season with Stoneheart hanging Freys - was an awesome way to ASOS. It doesn't necessarily need to be left that long though, particularly if season 4 runs into AFFC.

I "hope" you are right. but from a financial/producer point of view, its a waste of money to have an actress under contract, and only use her for the last 10 min of the last episode. so we shall see.

I don't see his life expectancy being too long but he will be making big ripples. I wonder what effect his mad new hand will have on him. I'm also interested to see how Euron is going to play into this - he clearly knows Victarion hates him yet trusts him on a mission half way around the world. Victarion is planning on betraying Euron, and Euron wouldn't be half the blue lipped clever bastard he is if hasn't predicted and planned for this.

define long. will he grow to be an old man, probably not. but none of Dany's people are sailors, and none of them are pirates. dont forget it wasnt exactly an easy peaceful voyage to sail out to slavers bay. Dany needs Victarion to get back to Westeros. theres simply no other option for her to go to westeros (short of GRRM introducing a new character). on the flip side, Victarion needs Dany as well. Euron's plans do not include Victarion past a certain point and Victarion is well aware of that. im 100% convinced that Vic helps Dany to Westeros in exchange for (fill in the blank).

On the subject of blue lips I've heard a crackpot that Euron is actually Pyatt Pree, signified by the blue lips. In AFFC its mentioned that Euron got the warlock juice from 3 warlocks he captured in the East - the theory goes that at this point Pyatt actually killed Euron and is using his form as a means to get to Daenarys in some fashion. I don't know what significance the dragon horn and Victarion's mission plays into this theory. Even if this isn't the case, Euron's end game is something to think about.

never heard this theory.. but i kinda like it in a "i'm going to look into this" kind of way. ill let u know if i can dig up anything fun/useful.

There have been a number of mentions of the "Demon Road" between Meereen and Volantis - I get the feeling we might see some of this before Dany gets back to Westeros. I'm not convinced that Victarion and however many of his ships survive the battle will be enough to take an all conquering force back to Westeros. Particularly if Dany picks up the Dothraki as well.

i dont recall the demon road [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] at the end of book 5, Victarion is in Slavers Bay and can see Mereen. there is nothing between him and the city at that point. the only battle awaiting him is on land, in Mereen (we know this also based on the Barriston chapter (bk6) that GRRM released on his website). we also know that Victarion has over 90 ships, but that most of them are trade galleys being run by skeleton crews. mathematically, and assuming they are using ships from the 1600s or early 1700s, i dont see how you can fit more than 27,000 people into 90 ships. 52,000 if everybody sits in somebody elses lap. Dany should have roughly 8,000 unsullied, 2,000 secondsons, 3 dragons, about ~40,000 Dothraki (assuming Jhoqo kept most of Drogos khalasar together after Drogo's death. Who knows i suppose.

I think however we see Benjen he's going to be in a bit of a mess. He's been gone a long time, too long to be running in the far north amongst the Others guerilla style. I don't think he's dead but he's definitely gonna be in some kind of fucked up situation. I like the idea of Coldhands being the Night King.

haha, to be fair, i never said Benjen would be ok :P i just think we will learn what happened. and Pras the Night King aka Coldhands.

Was interesting seeing Robb's wife at the Red Wedding. One of the theories floating around is that Jeyne Westerling is actually pregnant and is being hidden from the Lannisters (based of a lot of vague clues about varying descriptions of hips and numbers of Westerling daughters. What impact it would have relatively I'm not sure, or why her parents who I always thought of as being involved in the Red Wedding would be helping her hid it.)

i use to subscribe to this. but GRRM said in an interview after S3E9 that the mismatched descriptions could be chalked up to him making a mistake, OR to Catelyn and Jaime having different opinions about what consitutes "good child bearing hips". but yea, in the books, her mom plotted with Tywin because her family is sworn banner of the lannisters.

Robb's proclamation about his heir - in the books he draws up a succession plan in the event of his death and sends it of with one of the Mormont chicks to Howland Reed at Greywater Watch. This is generally thought to be Jon after the discussion he has with Catelyn about it. I don't remember seeing this in the TV series.

this one bothers me a lot, as ive been waiting on word of what happened with this since book 3. i have to imagine it wont come up in the books again if it was cleared to be cut out of the show.

Asha (or whatever she is called on the show) is off to the Dreadfort to rescue Theon. This is a bit of a departure from her attitude in the books and a bit of a change to her storyline - I wonder where they are going with this?

i imagine this is being done so that theres some sembelence of a story to actually tell on the Ramsay/Reek/Theon evolution. aside from toture+torture+moreTorture

[Agatha]

this thread has probably been one of the most sperg filled thread i have ever come across and i have only read the last page.

its kinda cute and pretty sexy in a wierd way, sirken you are cute [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Funkutron5000]

I'm just excited for the new Dunk and Egg to come out. She Wolves of Winterfell should be awesome.