Game Mechanics: Pulling while Invisible

[uygi]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sneak allows you to retain "hide" where having invis casted on you does not. Minor difference, maybe not even worth noting. I think it was revealed here that another bug is in place that if you are under the effects of sneak/hide having an invis break from you during it makes it permanent. Relapse posted this somewhere, go test here.

Sneak + hide also grants invis + invis to undead, where invis is just to normal mobs that can't see invis.

Entirely obvious and probably not the answer you were looking for... but, what specifically do you mean?

If you're asking if someone should be able to single pull using sneak? Absolutely not, same with invis / invis to undead. I think, as Ambrotos pointed out, mob hate lists are not working correctly.

That's not what I'm talking about.

Monks pull by tagging and running back, then FDing. They then sneak, so that when the mobs turn their backs to go home, they can't see the monk. The monk then tags again while sneaking, and only the mob that was attacked will notice because the others can't "see" the monk. As I'm sure you know, mobs can always "see" players they have aggro on. As has been said, Verant never had any idea FD would be used this way when they gave it to the monk class, so that very thoroughly throws the "never intended" argument out the window. The real question is is it classic, and I never played a monk but I'm pretty sure what I'm describing is how monks always pulled on live.

Not trolling here, just can't see how this is really any different from using invis. Invis, IVU, hide and sneak all do the same thing: they make the mob unable to perceive the player. Different forms of functional "invis", and different combinations behave somewhat differently, but they all set faction to "indifferent" when in effect.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not what I'm talking about.

Monks pull by tagging and running back, then FDing. They then sneak, so that when the mobs turn their backs to go home, they can't see the monk. The monk then tags again while sneaking, and only the mob that was attacked will notice because the others can't "see" the monk. As I'm sure you know, mobs can always "see" players they have aggro on. As has been said, Verant never had any idea FD would be used this way when they gave it to the monk class, so that very thoroughly throws the "never intended" argument out the window. The real question is is it classic, and I never played a monk but I'm pretty sure what I'm describing is how monks always pulled on live.

Not trolling here, just can't see how this is really any different from using invis. Invis, IVU, hide and sneak all do the same thing: they make the mob unable to perceive the player. Different forms of functional "invis", and different combinations behave somewhat differently, but they all set faction to "indifferent" when in effect.

Sneak did not work like this on Live. It is not how Monk's pulled on Live.

If you pulled a mob and then Feigned you COULD NOT remove yourself from the hate list simply by using Hide or Sneak.

The only way to remove yourself was to be CoH'd, zoning, having a successful feign, or the mob resetting to its static spawn point.

What Sneak does is significantly reduce the aggro range of a mob.

It will not work correctly here because the projectile system on range items is almost instantaneous.

Example of how it is supposed to work:

Player Sneaks up behind a spawn of 3 mobs
Player throws/shoots one of the mobs
Player has a successful Sneak as the projectile is in the air before it hits the mob they want to pull
Mob then comes single due to the reduced aggro range of the targeted mob

[uygi]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Example of how it is supposed to work:

Player Sneaks up behind a spawn of 3 mobs
Player throws/shoots one of the mobs
Player has a successful Sneak as the projectile is in the air before it hits the mob they want to pull
Mob then comes single due to the reduced aggro range of the targeted mob

That doesn't make sense. Sneaking reduces the mob's ability to ask for help from his buddies? Being "invisible" to the mob makes a lot more sense to me.

And yes Nirgon, mobs going home separately is also part of it, but certainly not all of it.

[uygi]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you pulled a mob and then Feigned you COULD NOT remove yourself from the hate list simply by using Hide or Sneak.

I suppose that would be the most quintessential example of what we're debating here. Should my aggro reset it I hide or am invis'd before I stand up? I didn't play an FD class on live. If it's not supposed to work, then I guess the only way to escape a sticky situation would be to have a groupmate invis you while FD, /q out and come back invis...