How do Barbarian Shamans and their toys hold up in Velious?

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Reikerz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread's about Velious. You're a nobody shaman who's played on P99 Kunark for a couple months and bragging about soloing HS trash. Congratulations. I'm talking from experience of playing a shaman in a high end raid guild throughout Velious (twice - original/classic and Progession 1.0).

Once again, the things you're saying aren't incorrect per se but they're irrelevant. Yes, if you play a non-ogre you can time things around bash. You're not teaching me some sort of lost nugget of shamanic knowledge here. It also doesn't make your point. It reinforces the fact that ogres are better because they don't have to worry about that bullshit.

When you're working your way up and soloing mobs like Mazi who hit for 200+, AE and dispel, you have way too much to worry about to plan out spell timings around a bash timer. When you're timing your torpor around AE dispels while keeping dots / debuffs online amidst high resist rates, you'll begin to realize the advantages that ogres have when you have very tiny windows to land specific spells. Once you work up to Lodizal/Stomples... forget it.

What class do you play here? I'd love to see you solo HS south with a shaman. With all of your vast knowledge, I'm sure it would not be a problem. Of course, anyone who has been to HS south here knows it's not just "HS trash". Breaking a camp there is probably the toughest thing I can do currently, and I put it well above things like soloing Drusella, which is probably the closest you can get to WW dragons at this point.

I love how your argument morphed from:

Originally Posted by Reikerz

it's impossible to time your spells around bash.

to:

Originally Posted by Reikerz

Yes, if you play a non-ogre you can time things around bash. You're not teaching me some sort of lost nugget of shamanic knowledge here.

It seems you have gained that lost nugget of shamanic knowledge sometime in the last few hours. So now that you admit I'm right about being able to time around bash, surely you must admit that timing around bash and having extra regen is better than not getting stunned by bash with no regen.

I'll admit that if you don't have the multitasking ability to keep track of bashes on top of the other things you have to watch, you should probably play ogre. But troll/iksar offers you the possibility of being more effective, though it requires more work.

[Orruar]

Testing signature

[Galelor]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Testing signature

/thread

[Sajan]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love how your argument morphed from:


to:


It seems you have gained that lost nugget of shamanic knowledge sometime in the last few hours

lol'd

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Reikerz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stuff

Anyone can set up a straw man and knock it down. It's certainly much easier to do that than to refute any of what I've actually said. I've never said anything about a perfect world where you get no resists or fizzles. Every race has to deal with those issues, and they only present a minor additional inconvenience when timing bash properly.

I love your math... You show how over a 30 minute fight, stun immunity will give you the ability to cast 2 extra torpor, to gain 2400 hp. Then you dismiss lame +8 standing regen. Let's see, 8 hp per tick = 80 hp per minute * 30 min = 2400 hp. Let's ignore the fact that if you're timing bash properly, you won't let torpor drop and so you don't really gain those 2 extra torpors. Even if you do get those awesome gains, you end up even with the troll on hp, and having spent an extra 400 mana. Next time you say "math time", don't stop doing math after only analyzing half of the equation.

I'll give you some help on your argument, since you seem to be having trouble forming a decent one yourself. When bashed, you get stunned for 1.5 seconds. That is extra downtime. Even if you time your big spells around bash, as every good shaman should, you still lose out about 1/2 cast of canni each time you are bashed. This happens about every minute, so you lose roughly 1 canni cast every 2 minutes. This is what you should be focused on if you want to argue the benefits of stun resist.

Of course, against the very hardest hitters where you have to back off canni after unlucky streaks of hits, this effect is negated. If you're never reaching full hp with torpor ticking nonstop, the stun immunity offers no benefit. And these are precisely the fights where extra regen offers the greatest benefit (use your math to understand why).