Where did WoW go right?

[Loli Pops]

Vanilla WoW sans BGs

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Loli Pops [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vanilla WoW sans BGs

I dunno, WSG/AB/AV all had their moments and were a ton of fun. The later BGs just didn't do it for me. PvP without BGs just becomes gang warfare, which isn't as fun for a pseudo-casual player who just wants to PvP every now and then on a fairly even plane.

AV as a hunter was some of the most fun I ever had, although I really felt Alliance had a much better layout (all versions). AB and WSG were flat awesome, esp if you had 2 or 3 RL friends to team up with.

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i laugh at people who says wow class balance > eq.

As besta tester i did have a clue about what was wow before the launch and wich class was the best suited dps heal and kill other players.

i did pick a enhacement orc shaman while most go tauren, when u single handle killed ten alliance players of your same level without troubles thanks to windfury and that crafted axe was priceles.

So did you actually play after Beta? Doesn't sound like you did.

Windfury was really strong, but frost shock was much more a pain in the A for alliance before DRs were implemented, so if you're pointing at windfury as an example of no class balance, you've already lost.

The very proposition that "WoW class balance was just as bad or worse than EQ's" is laughable from the start. I'm sorry, if you don't see it i'm not going to bother to explain it.

[Atmas]

Just my 2 cents on the "new" topic of this thread. To preface I played EQ basically from launch until after OoW was released, I actually did the majority of stuff through PoP including Quarm but only a sliver of GoD. I playeyd WoW from Vanilla on and off again until a bit after Cata launched. In both games I was pretty hardcore usually playing within the top 3 guilds on a server. On EQ my main was a Wiz on WoW a mage and I have played numerous alts on both.

Simply put, in my opinion EQ is a more difficult game, WoW gameplay is more complex in combat, but then EQ overall is (or at least was) more complex.

I will attempt to expound. EQ is more difficult because while the mechanics for typical playing (dpsing/healing/tanking) are simpler, encounters in the game are less forgiving. Aside from the obvious lack of quests, the xp penalties for death, the failures for tradeskill combines, it is harder to progress in EQ because of the game structure. In WoW any class can solo to max level, not the case in EQ. In EQ not only is leveling a large timesink but the opponents you face are much more difficult in comparison to your own strength and abilities. This kind of plays into the point about WoW being more complex with gameplay. Every class in WoW had more abilities in frequent use (I phrase it this way because later in EQ with AAs you had a ton of abilities but they weren't all in a typical encounter).

The same is true for raids in my mind. EQ had some tough encounters later on, things like the rathe council expected a lot of people all doing their fairly simple jobs very well and anyone messing up would be a wipe for the raid. WoW on the other hand has everyone jumping through multiple hoops but it was less of a big deal most of the time if a couple of people died. Obviously I can't blanket statement both games and all encounters with in them.

I say EQ was a more complex game overall because I feel like there were more non-common knowledge things in the game. A lot of the quests you need to progress in EQ, such as the key quests invovled getting drops off of what would be really random mobs if you didn't have a wiki or some outside reference. WoW had several items that were quest pieces but they were pretty expliclity pointed out to you and there was a kind of pattern to how you did things for one quest that would let you understand future quests. I guess it all comes down to the intent of WoW to steer you in the directions and give you guidance where as EQ instead just left you to your own devices and you may encounter a quest NPC or find out something from another player's experience.

[lawll]

Lol at all the people who think pointless grinds and forced social interaction is a solid MMO game model.

[subatis]

I use to always use magelo, castersrealm, alla, plenty of things for information involving EQ, what's the difference with WoW? Yes, EQ made you explore and figure things out on your own more, but I'm pretty sure a majority of players used fan sites for help more than you think. In the end though, all of that exploring and running around is, ding ding ding, a timesink. Running from point A to point B, and taking an hour, isn't really "gameplay". It may feel like more of an accomplishment to some, but I'd rather just play the video game, because in the end, that's all it is.

i think this is where the difference of opinion shines through...for me, playing EQ isn't 100% about leveling and gearing, which to me pretty much embodies WoW. i am a very casual player, probably log on 5 hours per week tops, and take long breaks regularly...but even after this game has been out for so long, i still enjoy poking around, leveling at my own pace, doing random quests, etc.

tl;dr that's just like, your opinion, man.

[Atmas]

Square, to use your own word "your biggest failure" is that you can't post in this thread objectively. It is a shame, as others have already pointed out, that you cannot express your conflicting opinions without making underhanded comments. No where in my post did I mention that EQ or WoW is a better game because of their mechanics. I could easily make a post mirroring yours that your lack of understanding the complexity of EQ is reflective of your lack of play.

In either case I made post specifically stating that you can't make a blanket statement about all encounters in the games. I also tried to place emphasis on the the difference between difficulty of actions required and time required.

Timesinks are not complex, they are more difficult, saying they are not is illogical. Running a mile is not any more complex than running half a mile really (please don't jump on some stupid point about pacing here) it is more difficult because it requires more resources. Some people seem to be upset by this because it does not include a quality increase and therefore is inferior. If you feel that way fine, but don't try to argue timesinks don't make things more difficult.

For the record I actually had a lot of fun with both games when I played them. Both of them have gone in directions I am not super found of today but I still consider them great experiences.

[Dirtnap]

Square's a young bully. Everyone who has a differing opinion "automatically fails".

Good game sir.

[Dirtnap]

What kind of experience? You can experience something without having hands on experience. You can have experience by watching someone else, or by hearing from someone else.

And to be fair, you have done the most name calling in this entire thread. You can't go a paragraph without insulting someone in some way. I'm just calling it like I see it.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, I don't feel the need to show respect to people who came into a POSITIVE topic, only to bash a game and make negative comparisons. It isn't my fault people couldn't read the topic title correctly, its your fault. It sounds like I've played as far into EQ as you and others here have, so like I asked these others, post more information and direct it to my points I made, you don't seem to be able to respond. Instead you take the sensitivity on the internet route.


Right, and I made points about that, and pointed you to another thread focused on that. We can agree to disagree, that's fine. I'd rather spend the "time" playing the game, the game.

You don't have experience in WoW, so don't make comparisons, that was never the point of this topic anyway. Why do you need to defend EQ on a classic EQ forum? No one has a response to that.

Again, read the other thread about timesinks. Saying a timesink is "difficult" is just silly. Difficult why? Because you spend hours to accomplish one little thing? Why is this considered difficult?

In the other thread, you'll see what your posting is already addressed by me as well as others, and pretty much shows what you're saying is silly.

Say you have to camp a specific mob for about 18 hours straight, does that mean it is difficult, or does it mean it just requires a lot of time? We are talking about things in a game sense, not that you can't eat/shower for 18 hours, that isn't game difficulty.

I think you have created an amalgamation of people posting in this thread. I never had a problem with WoW, IMO its a very well made game and I had fun playing it. You are so overly defensive of WoW you can't even seperate who has said what. To be honest if wanted to bash WoW I could, I could do the same for EQ, both games have a flaw list 10 miles long. In all honesty your compsure does a lot more detriment than anything I could say as you are a great reminder of the anti-social player base in WoW.

As far as points go, you really haven't made any in response to me except for your opinion that timesinks =\= difficulty. While I can definitely understand you would "rather play the game" you are arguing apples and oranges. Your preference of playstyle has nothing to do with the definition of difficulty, the level of impediment in reaching your goal.

Also you fail to see the irony of talking about how WoW was more excessible to everyone than making incorrect statements about who played what. I mean it really doesn't matter what you think, I played and enjoyed WoW and know it. But it does just degrade your arguments when you start basing them on knowing details about the lives of people you have never met. End game in WoW was far more attainable than end game in EQ.

You also failed to address the points brought up by other people about item obtainment in WoW but that could just go on forever.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was in a large raiding guild in WoW for a while, and often was in some of the top ranked 3v3 and 5v5 teams on the Blackrock server (aj/misc be mirin). If I was anti-social this wouldn't of been possible, seeing as how interaction and communication is truly key. I never said EQ sucks, or WoW sucks, it was a debate about complexity and feeling like you're truly playing, instead of watching a movie. There are too many people blinded by nostalgia, and they keep forgetting what forum we're on. I play on P1999 for god's sake. I obviously enjoy EQ. Why does it needed to be defended, and WoW need to be bashed? Especially in a POSITIVE thread.



Your bolded quote speaks for itself. I chuckled. I guess I just prefer challenges (some minor) over sitting on my ass waiting for hours.



It is/was more accessible. Everyone who seems to bash WoW has limited experience with it though, so they are bashing something they've barely experienced. I never enjoyed the leveling/questing in WoW myself, but I enjoyed the PVP/PVE end game, you know...the focus of the game. Everyone's debate is "oh my gosh its so easy to level in wow its casual and sucks". Please...

I did address item obtainment, I mentioned arenas vs battleground gear, guild raid vs raid finder, etc. I'd rather play a game for 2 hours and have a chance for items, than camp a spawn for 20 hours to have a chance at the item, once. If you don't agree, that's fine. The majority of people don't have 20 hours to spare.

I chuckled too. You are reading my post but I guess this is failure of the internet where you are deriving something not intended.

I do not like timesinks. I don't like getting carpal tunnel handing in 2g at a time to NPCs for faction. Me saying that EQ is more difficult because it has timesinks does not mean I think it is a better game because of it. I can tell you that a football field is 100 yards from end zone to end zone, it doesn't indicate if I have a preference for a particular team.

Me saying that you can level any class solo in WoW but not EQ does not mean I think it is automatically a better game. I do personally feel that a lot of people in WoW were more clueless about their class or social skills because of it at end game though.

I have always said I thought WoW was way more polished than EQ or any other MMO I have played when it was released.