Suggestions For Wizards

[Splorf22]

I would like to add that we get these posts every so often about 'oh, all you other wizards suck, *I* know the true way to play the class' when its simple mathematics that wizards are the absolute worst class for any xp group, well behind druids and rangers even.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to add that we get these posts every so often about 'oh, all you other wizards suck, *I* know the true way to play the class' when its simple mathematics that wizards are the absolute worst class for any xp group, well behind druids and rangers even.

Sure if you put math too it you can make it sound worse than it is. But you're not taking into account pulling time, afk's, clerics needing mana, tank gaining control/aggro, stopping to rebuff etc...

Say I do 20% dmg of a mobs life in one nuke, if I land two of those nukes I'm essentially doing 40% of that mobs life. That's almost half as much as the rest of the group. As long as lulls in the group allow me to do that I can stay on top of DPS without much problem. Your simple mathematics tells me that if I'm doing 40% of a mobs life and the other 5 group members combined are doing 60% who do you think is going to be doing the most damage out of said group?

I do realize things change from zone to zone, with mobs and hp's and percentages. But your simple mana/damage ratio doesn't necessarily hold up.

I have quarreled many times of the ins and outs of the Wizard/Sorc class in many games spanning 15 years of experience. I'm not always right, but in the end I have always been known for and appreciated for the DPS I bring to the table. And if all the others sending me tells for groups can see it then that's all that matters to me.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure if you put math too it you can make it sound worse than it is. But you're not taking into account pulling time, afk's, clerics needing mana, tank gaining control/aggro, stopping to rebuff etc...

Say I do 20% dmg of a mobs life in one nuke, if I land two of those nukes I'm essentially doing 40% of that mobs life. That's almost half as much as the rest of the group. As long as lulls in the group allow me to do that I can stay on top of DPS without much problem. Your simple mathematics tells me that if I'm doing 40% of a mobs life and the other 5 group members combined are doing 60% who do you think is going to be doing the most damage out of said group?

I do realize things change from zone to zone, with mobs and hp's and percentages. But your simple mana/damage ratio doesn't necessarily hold up.

I have quarreled many times of the ins and outs of the Wizard/Sorc class in many games spanning 15 years of experience. I'm not always right, but in the end I have always been known for and appreciated for the DPS I bring to the table. And if all the others sending me tells for groups can see it then that's all that matters to me.

How about a gentleman's bet for 5k then? We can form an XP group for Sebilis or HS (anywhere with plenty of mobs) with my 60 enchanter and your wizard for an hour or two. If my charmed pet outdamages your wizard nukes, I win (obviously I still have to CC and buff). Anything less, you win.

If you prefer, we can insist that the group includes a 55+ shaman and a 58+ tank, in which case I'd be willing to accept 2:1 odds (pet outdamages you by a factor of two).

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about a gentleman's bet for 5k then? We can form an XP group for Sebilis or HS (anywhere with plenty of mobs) with my 60 enchanter and your wizard for an hour or two. If my charmed pet outdamages your wizard nukes, I win (obviously I still have to CC and buff). Anything less, you win.

If you prefer, we can insist that the group includes a 55+ shaman and a 58+ tank, in which case I'd be willing to accept 2:1 odds (pet outdamages you by a factor of two).

Well firstly I'm not even 60 yet, and not even close too it. This is experience from EQ live talking. And my current experience in Project99 which is virtually identical to this point.

The comparison made earlier in this thread was that Wizards were gimped Enchanters. I know how well Enchanters charmed pets can be. We took down RZ in Tactics, and sailed through tipt trials time and again with Enchanter pets. And yes I'm sure your pet plus your DPS would be more than mine. But no way in hell will you out DPS me without that pet with us being equal level and somewhat similar gear.

Sure if I had all the right conditions of a tank with the highest aggro in game, necros twitching me nonstop, and clarity 2 my DPS would be insane too.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure if I had all the right conditions of a tank with the highest aggro in game, necros twitching me nonstop, and clarity 2 my DPS would be insane too.

You've just proven that wizards are terrible DPS. You need the stars to align in order for you to even claim that your DPS would be insane, when a rogue or monk or necro or mage or ench can sustain great, xp-group DPS with ease.

And also, your sustained DPS would still not even APPROACH being "insane" even if you never missed med ticks, had 2 necros twitching you nonstop, had c2, and had a bard twisting mana songs nonstop. You'd be looking at maybe 50-60 sustained DPS. And looking at that number in a vaccuum, that is great sustained DPS. But it isn't insane, and it required 3 players dedicated to boosting you plus buffs plus an unrealistically godly tank for you to achieve it.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've just proven that wizards are terrible DPS. You need the stars to align in order for you to even claim that your DPS would be insane, when a rogue or monk or necro or mage or ench can sustain great, xp-group DPS with ease.

And also, your sustained DPS would still not even APPROACH being "insane" even if you never missed med ticks, had 2 necros twitching you nonstop, had c2, and had a bard twisting mana songs nonstop. You'd be looking at maybe 50-60 sustained DPS. And looking at that number in a vaccuum, that is great sustained DPS. But it isn't insane, and it required 3 players dedicated to boosting you plus buffs plus an unrealistically godly tank for you to achieve it.

Obviously you misunderstood my entire point. For an Enchanter to have a charmed pet and a Shaman in the group to buff him to maximize his DPS is also having his stars aligned. That's my point. Under certain circumstances anyone can be great DPS. If you want to throw any and every damage shield on a Ranger and give him every best buff in the game then he might have some good DPS too.

[Houdiny]

Funny thing is you would think I am the one putting down another classes DPS by the way I am having to defend myself here. I got no quams with any other class, I think all classes when played right bring something good and unique and beneficial to a raid or a group

You guys think Wizards are terrible DPS. That's fine. No sweat off my sack. It's like I said, the people who want me in groups realize I am good dps.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously you misunderstood my entire point. For an Enchanter to have a charmed pet and a Shaman in the group to buff him to maximize his DPS is also having his stars aligned. That's my point. Under certain circumstances anyone can be great DPS. If you want to throw any and every damage shield on a Ranger and give him every best buff in the game then he might have some good DPS too.

An enchanter using charm and a shaman using haste? Those things are not "the stars aligning."

A rogue or a monk with sham buffs? That is not "the stars aligning."

Two necros and a bard dedicated to do nothing but feed mana to a wizard IS "the stars aligning."

And yet, the enchanter, the monk, and the rogue will all still be doing more damage over time than the wizard, despite it taking a small miracle for the wizard to manage to do as much damage as he is.


THAT is why wizards are generally the worst option for an xp group. They have poor sustained DPS to begin with and it take more effort than it is worth to bring their sustained DPS to remotely competitive levels.


I'm not saying wizards are a terrible class, I'm just saying that you're a terrible player for thinking that your DPS, as a wizard, is good when it comes to an xp group setting.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well firstly I'm not even 60 yet, and not even close too it. This is experience from EQ live talking. And my current experience in Project99 which is virtually identical to this point.

The comparison made earlier in this thread was that Wizards were gimped Enchanters. I know how well Enchanters charmed pets can be. We took down RZ in Tactics, and sailed through tipt trials time and again with Enchanter pets. And yes I'm sure your pet plus your DPS would be more than mine. But no way in hell will you out DPS me without that pet with us being equal level and somewhat similar gear.

Sure if I had all the right conditions of a tank with the highest aggro in game, necros twitching me nonstop, and clarity 2 my DPS would be insane too.

I don't think you even reading my posts. Anyway, glad you are enjoying your time on P1999!