Americans and Guns (post pics of your armory !)

[karsten]

guys don't get trolled by the european versions of hicks

[Hasbinlulz]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The attacker would have had better results with a molotov cocktail in a packed police station.

fix'd

[Eashan2.0]

Originally Posted by Hasbinlulz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eashan is my Hero !!!!

fix'd that for you

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If bystanders had guns, they might have helped.

Are you sure bystanders didn't have guns?

I think what you meant to say was: If bystanders had discharged their guns, it might have helped.

Or maybe, more accurately, you meant to say: If a bystander had brought their gun to the movie theater, managed to not get shot before he could react, identified the shooter in a chaotic, darkened theater full of screaming, fleeing victims and tear gas, drew a bead and successfully shot the spree killer, well, that might have helped.

Why is this argument important to people? The argument that "if only someone in the killing field had brought their gun shit would have been different". What about a populous already teeming with firearms makes some people think, "Gee, where can we fit moar guns?"

[Phats]

People need to train, respect, and carry a weapon.

If a psycho wants to murder people, your mom, your wife, your daughter; They are going to murder them regardless of 'set gun laws'.

NO ONE PERSON should have more power than another. If psycho's can get weapons, so can citizens.

[Phats]

Or as habinbad would say, If cops can carry weapons, so can citizens.

fix'd

[Hasbinlulz]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you sure bystanders didn't have guns?

I think what you meant to say was: If bystanders had discharged their guns, it might have helped.

Or maybe, more accurately, you meant to say: If a bystander had brought their gun to the movie theater, managed to not get shot before he could react, identified the shooter in a chaotic, darkened theater full of screaming, fleeing victims and tear gas, drew a bead and successfully shot the spree killer, well, that might have helped.

Why is this argument important to people? The argument that "if only someone in the killing field had brought their gun shit would have been different". What about a populous already teeming with firearms makes some people think, "Gee, where can we fit moar guns?"

Obviously your points are all salient and astute.

I think you're missing the underlying assumptions of people who make these kinds of ridiculous claims. They think of that bystander as themselves, with all the attributes and abilities their video-game conception of the world applies to themselves. They actually think that in that kind of situation, with no training or drilling, that they could do that sort of thing. This is one area where military women and men would have a definite leg up, and that kind of training (if it ever sank in) combined with an available weapon may have actually saved the day. The problem is that in the grandiose mind of the average citizen, being leet at black ops means you'd know what to do in that situation, so they argue for idiotic things like "everyone shoulda had a gun."

I just used a lot of words and most of them are rambling, but I think you should be able to get what I'm saying.

[Nikon]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An isolated incident of batman fever

I'll pass that statement to my two military friends that were at that theater last night and direct them your way. And for those of you whining about 'if they had guns they could have shot back', this guy used a GAS CANISTER and FULL TACTICAL GEAR when he entered the theater and anyone with a conceal and carry permit that is in their right mind would not pull their gun and fire into a DARK SMOKEY ROOM of civilians at a movie theater. You guys need need serious reality check.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you sure bystanders didn't have guns?

No, I only read the one article. I'm not sure if the bystanders were armed or not. I'm not sure if the shooter opened fire in the seating area or the lobby. I said that "If bystanders had guns, they might have helped. I'm not sure the legal ramifications if they did, but they might have saved some lives." Is this not true? If the guy opened up fire, but there were bystanders surrounding him, someone might have taken action. If everyone had a weapon, this might not have happened:

officers immediately took the suspect into custody in the parking lot behind the cinema, where he surrendered without a fight,

I'm not trying to imply this guy should be shot to death, but he might have assumed it was possible he wouldn't die. If everyone was armed, the shooter might not survive. He also might not have attempted a public killing spree.

That's the crux of my overall pro-gun beliefs. If guns exist, and they are legal to own, then why not have one? If all firearms could magically disappear and the simple technologies required to make them weren't possible, I would vote yes on the removal. I would vote yes on the removal of anything capable of mass-slaughtering humans; guns, and everything else as powerful as guns. It's not possible. Guns exist on every continent and in every country.

I think what you meant to say was: If bystanders had discharged their guns, it might have helped.

Or maybe, more accurately, you meant to say: If a bystander had brought their gun to the movie theater, managed to not get shot before he could react, identified the shooter in a chaotic, darkened theater full of screaming, fleeing victims and tear gas, drew a bead and successfully shot the spree killer, well, that might have helped.

Sure, it might have helped. The projectionist might have saved the day, or a random person. Not carrying a weapon removes your personal power to do anything in the hopes that an off-duty police officer, or someone who can resolve the crisis follows through.

Why is this argument important to people? The argument that "if only someone in the killing field had brought their gun shit would have been different". What about a populous already teeming with firearms makes some people think, "Gee, where can we fit moar guns?"

In a thread entitled Americans and Guns (post pics of your armory !), where a random troll posts:

so much for the argument that easier access of guns for the law abiding citizen will help stop with such masacres.

seems it only ever helps the person who wants to do the killing

Seems like a nice place to discuss this.

I've been around guns my entire life so I might have a different viewpoint than others. I see a gun as a tool like a lot of other things. Everyone around me owns firearms and knows how to use firearms.

[LordFresh]

Originally Posted by Nikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll pass that statement to my two military friends that were at that theater last night and direct them your way. And for those of you whining about 'if they had guns they could have shot back', this guy used a GAS CANISTER and FULL TACTICAL GEAR when he entered the theater and anyone with a conceal and carry permit that is in their right mind would not pull their gun and fire into a DARK SMOKEY ROOM of civilians at a movie theater. You guys need need serious reality check.

The idea behind CCW is for protection of myself and family - so we can get to safety. It isnt meant for a hero move were we save the day. Most times saving the day doesnt happen and the hero ends up dead.

The way a CCW would of worked is if the guy was walking the isles like he says and a CCW holder was laying on the floor and had a good close shot.

Anyone can do this sort of crime - even if all guns were banned right now it would take many many years before criminals or crazy people couldnt get them.

I personally would of had my weapon in my pocket with the ability to pull it had the shooter come in front of me or my family running out.

Even with a bullet proof jacket 4-5 shots in the chest would stop him for a while.

Remember CCW can also get you killed in this sort of enviroment. Police or citizens seeing you holding a pistol while this is going on makes them think you are the gunman.