Rules clarification

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry. You seems to lack the ability to connect dots.

15man rule can be used for free hand outs.

Did TMO use the 15man rule before or after BDA socked?

After? oh well, I guess they did as a response.

Before? oh well, I guess they wanted the free kill.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA wasn't socking 40 outside aggro range? Nope.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA was socking 40 outside aggro range? Yep.

Why would TMO do such a thing b/c of socking? Well, you see, history on p99 tells us that once you have 2 large raid forces inching closer to a spawn point, it becomes apparent that GMs will get involved (due to FTE). This is where TMO will have trouble. The casuals will bitch, moan, whine and complain about any and everything (as made apparent by this thread alone). So GMs will use their feelings and tell big bad TMO that they should have just let BDA have it (because BDA is so wittle). I talked to Ambrotos in IRC and he mentioned where you guys were and that you had a few within aggro range and his talk/demeanor showed that if it came to FTE battle and GMs getting involved, BDA would have probably got TMO in trouble again.

BDA keeps bitching they might actually get the GMs to force TMO to give them free targets like they want. Anything to shut the whiny baby up I guess. However, TMO can keep playing strictly by the rules and as long as they don't break any, nothing can be said.

Wasn't it BDA telling TMO to play by the rules last week? Now you're pissed they are playing by the rules and not by your moral standard (of giving you free targets).

I'm not pissed about anything. It just seems like a double standard you guys set. I'm not debating whether you used the rule in response to poop socking. My point is, it's still asking for a free hand out, because you essentially rolled in there with the intention of taking the mob without competition. Now if TMO set up shop to do an actual poop sock race instead of claiming 15 man rule, I wouldn't think you guys were looking for the free hand outs that you think the other guilds don't deserve.

Also, it is possible to make your points without resorting to name calling and talking down to people. Food for thought.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not pissed about anything. It just seems like a double standard you guys set. I'm not debating whether you used the rule in response to poop socking. My point is, it's still asking for a free hand out, because you essentially rolled in there with the intention of taking the mob without competition. Now if TMO set up shop to do an actual poop sock race instead of claiming 15 man rule, I wouldn't think you guys were looking for the free hand outs that you think the other guilds don't deserve.

Also, it is possible to make your points without resorting to name calling and talking down to people. Food for thought.

If TMO had logged on 40, your squad would have put 15+ on spawn. It's apparent. It always happened, it will always happen. You would have bitched either way, only giving you Trakanon would have curbed the bitching, it was destiny.

TMO skipped all the in-game headache, there was no other call that didn't involve GMs or TMO giving you the free ride.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If TMO had logged on 40, your squad would have put 15+ on spawn. It's apparent. It always happened, it will always happen. You would have bitched either way, only giving you Trakanon would have curbed the bitching, it was destiny.

TMO skipped all the in-game headache, there was no other call that didn't involve GMs or TMO giving you the free ride.

This is nothing but speculation. I've been raiding off and on for the last 7 or 8 months, sometimes with high attendance, sometimes not so high, but this is the first time I've seen a guild use the 15 man rule to claim a mob, let alone Trak. Unfortunately it did set a precedent where it's probably going to be a common thing now unless Nilbog's new rules prove to be a good fix for everyone.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is nothing but speculation. I've been raiding off and on for the last 7 or 8 months, sometimes with high attendance, sometimes not so high, but this is the first time I've seen a guild use the 15 man rule to claim a mob, let alone Trak. Unfortunately it did set a precedent where it's probably going to be a common thing now unless Nilbog's new rules prove to be a good fix for everyone.

Raiding what for 7 or 8 months? TMO cleaned house the months after IB and VD left. I was still around Dec-Feb, TMO had little to no competition the following few months and gave free mobs for people to kill for 2-3weeks somewhere around then. Looks like it started getting used again when people started socking against each other.

So yeah, It might not have been used because there was no need for it to be used. No one was socking against TMO, who 15mans for no reason?

You new guys are annoying as hell and literally know nothing.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Unfortunately it did set a precedent where it's probably going to be a common thing now unless Nilbog's new rules prove to be a good fix for everyone

This has, for better or for worse, been a long established precedent. Whenever a highly contested mob enters late into its window, both raids will show up in force. 15 manning a spawn is a very risky maneuver. It tires out your raiders, it's boring, and you might be unprepared when the mob does spawn. Generally, when a mob is 15 manned there are less than 4 hours on the window OR it is simply a tactic to log the other guild off.

In the case at hand, it seems the latter purpose was accomplished.

There's really no good solution for what happens when a window begins to close. That said, IB and TMO reached an agreement where 15 manning was illegal and both guilds abided by it. Perhaps that could be explored here.

[norova]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This has, for better or for worse, been a long established precedent. Whenever a highly contested mob enters late into its window, both raids will show up in force. 15 manning a spawn is a very risky maneuver. It tires out your raiders, it's boring, and you might be unprepared when the mob does spawn. Generally, when a mob is 15 manned there are less than 4 hours on the window OR it is simply a tactic to log the other guild off.

In the case at hand, it seems the latter purpose was accomplished.

There's really no good solution for what happens when a window begins to close. That said, IB and TMO reached an agreement where 15 manning was illegal and both guilds abided by it. Perhaps that could be explored here.

Take your logic and get out of here!

[Rais]

The only thing I got out of this is that some former dude named Neicht is cybering someone who is almost 40 years older than him. What is the story here Morning Glory?

Anything else I miss in this?

[lilyanna]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing I got out of this is that some former dude named Neicht is cybering someone who is almost 40 years older than him. What is the story here Morning Glory?

Anything else I miss in this?

Lol !

[jpeute]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing I got out of this is that some former dude named Neicht is cybering someone who is almost 40 years older than him. What is the story here Morning Glory?

Anything else I miss in this?

i'm also trying to cyber lily, but lily makes too much cup of tea for me...wtb moooooooooore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raiding what for 7 or 8 months? TMO cleaned house the months after IB and VD left. I was still around Dec-Feb, TMO had little to no competition the following few months and gave free mobs for people to kill for 2-3weeks somewhere around then. Looks like it started getting used again when people started socking against each other.

So yeah, It might not have been used because there was no need for it to be used. No one was socking against TMO, who 15mans for no reason?

You new guys are annoying as hell and literally know nothing.

2 of those months was socking Trak against TMO in VD. I didn't see the 15 man rule used there. Don't remember seeing you there either (I might not remember right though).