Rules clarification

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Doesn't answer my question.

I'm sorry. You seems to lack the ability to connect dots.

15man rule can be used for free hand outs.

Did TMO use the 15man rule before or after BDA socked?

After? oh well, I guess they did as a response.

Before? oh well, I guess they wanted the free kill.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA wasn't socking 40 outside aggro range? Nope.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA was socking 40 outside aggro range? Yep.

Why would TMO do such a thing b/c of socking? Well, you see, history on p99 tells us that once you have 2 large raid forces inching closer to a spawn point, it becomes apparent that GMs will get involved (due to FTE). This is where TMO will have trouble. The casuals will bitch, moan, whine and complain about any and everything (as made apparent by this thread alone). So GMs will use their feelings and tell big bad TMO that they should have just let BDA have it (because BDA is so wittle). I talked to Ambrotos in IRC and he mentioned where you guys were and that you had a few within aggro range and his talk/demeanor showed that if it came to FTE battle and GMs getting involved, BDA would have probably got TMO in trouble again.

BDA keeps bitching they might actually get the GMs to force TMO to give them free targets like they want. Anything to shut the whiny baby up I guess. However, TMO can keep playing strictly by the rules and as long as they don't break any, nothing can be said.

Wasn't it BDA telling TMO to play by the rules last week? Now you're pissed they are playing by the rules and not by your moral standard (of giving you free targets).

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA was socking 40 outside aggro range? Yep.

As much as I hate agreeing with IB they are correct, at least on Live servers. ie: EQMac.

If Trak can see you he will agro you. Jumpy should be in agro range. I got agro from Trak along the cliff near the pool on EQMac which is further back from Jumpy.

I don't think I have ever seen Trak on this server but I know that his agro range is huge.

Asher

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As much as I hate agreeing with IB they are correct, at least on Live servers. ie: EQMac.

If Trak can see you he will agro you. Jumpy should be in agro range. I got agro from Trak along the cliff near the pool on EQMac which is further back from Jumpy.

I don't think I have ever seen Trak on this server but I know that his agro range is huge.

Asher

doesn't matter what it should be, only what it is. If the aggro range was larger BDA would have socked outside of that range (they already admitted they socked at tola to be outside aggro range) and TMO would still have put 15 on the spawn.

Want it larger? Go blow up a bug report imo, won't change the outcome where the parties follow those guidelines. It only hurts BDA later which also helps TMO, but I guess you guys are only barking at how the aggro range should be larger to try and force some action.

P.S. Don't jump on a Gwence train, he's the biggest idiot there is (far worse than harrison, he just posts less often)

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

doesn't matter what it should be, only what it is. If the aggro range was larger BDA would have socked outside of that range (they already admitted they socked at tola to be outside aggro range) and TMO would still have put 15 on the spawn.

Want it larger? Go blow up a bug report imo, won't change the outcome where the parties follow those guidelines. It only hurts BDA later which also helps TMO, but I guess you guys are only barking at how the aggro range should be larger to try and force some action.

P.S. Don't jump on a Gwence train, he's the biggest idiot there is (far worse than harrison, he just posts less often)

I am not jumping on any train. He is correct. I understand your viewpoint and you are free to rules lawyer the hell out of it.

I will go bug it now, but since I cannot fraps it from EQMac they will probably not believe me.

Asher

[Quizy]

OP is angry..

These threads never end lol...... WHAAAAAMMMMMMMMMBULANCE

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Quizy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP is angry..

These threads never end lol...... WHAAAAAMMMMMMMMMBULANCE

I think many people think the 15 man rule is lame. I would like some clarification too.

Asher

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not jumping on any train. He is correct. I understand your viewpoint and you are free to rules lawyer the hell out of it.

I will go bug it now, but since I cannot fraps it from EQMac they will probably not believe me.

Asher

oh im sorry. please link me the rules about aggro ranges. I wasn't aware of the part were we go by what something should be via EQmac.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry. You seems to lack the ability to connect dots.

15man rule can be used for free hand outs.

Did TMO use the 15man rule before or after BDA socked?

After? oh well, I guess they did as a response.

Before? oh well, I guess they wanted the free kill.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA wasn't socking 40 outside aggro range? Nope.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA was socking 40 outside aggro range? Yep.

Why would TMO do such a thing b/c of socking? Well, you see, history on p99 tells us that once you have 2 large raid forces inching closer to a spawn point, it becomes apparent that GMs will get involved (due to FTE). This is where TMO will have trouble. The casuals will bitch, moan, whine and complain about any and everything (as made apparent by this thread alone). So GMs will use their feelings and tell big bad TMO that they should have just let BDA have it (because BDA is so wittle). I talked to Ambrotos in IRC and he mentioned where you guys were and that you had a few within aggro range and his talk/demeanor showed that if it came to FTE battle and GMs getting involved, BDA would have probably got TMO in trouble again.

BDA keeps bitching they might actually get the GMs to force TMO to give them free targets like they want. Anything to shut the whiny baby up I guess. However, TMO can keep playing strictly by the rules and as long as they don't break any, nothing can be said.

Wasn't it BDA telling TMO to play by the rules last week? Now you're pissed they are playing by the rules and not by your moral standard (of giving you free targets).

I'm not pissed about anything. It just seems like a double standard you guys set. I'm not debating whether you used the rule in response to poop socking. My point is, it's still asking for a free hand out, because you essentially rolled in there with the intention of taking the mob without competition. Now if TMO set up shop to do an actual poop sock race instead of claiming 15 man rule, I wouldn't think you guys were looking for the free hand outs that you think the other guilds don't deserve.

Also, it is possible to make your points without resorting to name calling and talking down to people. Food for thought.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not pissed about anything. It just seems like a double standard you guys set. I'm not debating whether you used the rule in response to poop socking. My point is, it's still asking for a free hand out, because you essentially rolled in there with the intention of taking the mob without competition. Now if TMO set up shop to do an actual poop sock race instead of claiming 15 man rule, I wouldn't think you guys were looking for the free hand outs that you think the other guilds don't deserve.

Also, it is possible to make your points without resorting to name calling and talking down to people. Food for thought.

If TMO had logged on 40, your squad would have put 15+ on spawn. It's apparent. It always happened, it will always happen. You would have bitched either way, only giving you Trakanon would have curbed the bitching, it was destiny.

TMO skipped all the in-game headache, there was no other call that didn't involve GMs or TMO giving you the free ride.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If TMO had logged on 40, your squad would have put 15+ on spawn. It's apparent. It always happened, it will always happen. You would have bitched either way, only giving you Trakanon would have curbed the bitching, it was destiny.

TMO skipped all the in-game headache, there was no other call that didn't involve GMs or TMO giving you the free ride.

This is nothing but speculation. I've been raiding off and on for the last 7 or 8 months, sometimes with high attendance, sometimes not so high, but this is the first time I've seen a guild use the 15 man rule to claim a mob, let alone Trak. Unfortunately it did set a precedent where it's probably going to be a common thing now unless Nilbog's new rules prove to be a good fix for everyone.