If a new p99 server opened with forced raid target rotations would you switch?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your lack of imagination is astounding.


and you are just nitpicking details of an idea that hasn't even been considered fully yet.


There are multiple ways to manage the issues that you bring up.. and it being a carebear server wouldn't have room for complaints because the competitive server would still be up too.


A few ideas.. would include.

*minimum guild size
*skill requirements (beat a certain boss or survive a certain encounter with limitations like no haste buffs or no hp buffs)
*IP check on characters.. one account one guild

I could go on but those are all details to be debated if the idea gained traction.


It would require more heavy handed enforcement on GM's part.. but I think thats what the carebears are calling for


and before you start nitpicking the ideas i tossed out to limit guild monopolization and try to work out loopholes in them.. I do realize you are trying to derail this thread into ambiguity and fine print.

So more GM involvement is your answer. (aside from the skill part, but very few targets require numbers especially if given hours to engage)

I'm not trying to derail anything, I am flat out saying the rotation idea is stupid and not only because the server staff already said it wouldn't happen.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So more GM involvement is your answer. (aside from the skill part, but very few targets require numbers especially if given hours to engage)

I'm not trying to derail anything, I am flat out saying the rotation idea is stupid and not only because the server staff already said it wouldn't happen.

More GM involvement would make sense to me.


the competitive "TMO" server can have no gm involvement beyond hacking / exploits enforcement


and the carebear server can enforce rainbows and unicorns rules


I don't see the problem with that.. instead of "competitive" raid guilds complaining about the inconsistent GM rulings they could have the free for all they claim to want


and the casuals can be happy seeing endgame content with an enforced progression that is monitored by the guilds involved.

I'm not saying GM's have to watch every kill.. i'm sure casual friendly guilds are capable of policing themselves.. and reporting violations of clearcut progression rules to be handled if the issue arises.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More GM involvement would make sense to me.



I don't see the problem with that..
and the casuals can be happy seeing endgame content with an enforced progression that is monitored by the guilds involved.

I'm not saying GM's have to watch every kill.. i'm sure casual friendly guilds are capable of policing themselves.. and reporting violations of clearcut progression rules to be handled if the issue arises.

So now you have around 10-20 guilds that have 15-30 members each that need all of their members IP checked across all the other guilds. Not to mention that each new member would also need to be cross referenced.

Each guild would also have to be counted for members by GMs and checked periodically.

Then you as a player base would have to watch guilds for buffs to test a guild's "skill"? Or would you require a GM to do this for you as well?

Seems like you guys want someone else to solve all your problems.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So now you have around 10-20 guilds that have 15-30 members each that need all of their members IP checked across all the other guilds. Not to mention that each new member would also need to be cross referenced.

Each guild would also have to be counted for members by GMs and checked periodically.

Then you as a player base would have to watch guilds for buffs to test a guild's "skill"? Or would you require a GM to do this for you as well?

Seems like you guys want someone else to solve all your problems.

as i said.. community enforced.. gm's don't have to protect against every contingency.. just clean up after and ban the offenders or move them to the competitive server.


you are viewing everything through the lens of a cutthroat competitor.. and I'm sure people like that will be found out and dealt with eventually.


the point isnt to stop every infraction from ever occurring.. its to manage them and heavy handedly enforce violations.

instead of IP checking every single account... just IP check suspected accounts and if found in violation deal with it then.


the key here is community enforcement with GM's acting on reported violations in the carebare community.. I'm sure there will be issues that arise from time to time.. but people who play like TMO would eventually be moved to competitive server or banned.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as i said.. community enforced.. gm's don't have to protect against every contingency.. just clean up after and ban the offenders or move them to the competitive server.


you are viewing everything through the lens of a cutthroat competitor.. and I'm sure people like that will be found out and dealt with eventually.


the point isnt to stop every infraction from ever occurring.. its to manage them and heavy handedly enforce violations.

instead of IP checking every single account... just IP check suspected accounts and if found in violation deal with it then.


the key here is community enforcement with GM's acting on reported violations in the carebare community.. I'm sure there will be issues that arise from time to time.. but people who play like TMO would eventually be moved to competitive server or banned.

More GM involvement isn't the answer and the staff doesn't want it. Your ideas will never happen. Plain and simple. I've tried to show you why, but you seem to think you're right and have the answer. Well, sorry bro, it's wrong.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More GM involvement isn't the answer and the staff doesn't want it. Your ideas will never happen. Plain and simple. I've tried to show you why, but you seem to think you're right and have the answer. Well, sorry bro, it's wrong.

The only part we disagree on is that GM involvement would make the game more fun which is where the origin of the two server idea for casuals comes from (and I wasn't the OP of the thread ;p)


but I do agree with you that two servers will never happen (and have stated previously in this thread).. and I have little faith in the management team of the server here to solve the problems of the raid scene.

bottom line.. there will continue to be a mire of complex loosely and inconsistently enforced rules that don't strike at the root of the problem here.

Non-classic raid techniques, non-classic batphones, and non-classic strategic accounts placed all throughout the game. all of this combined with a slower than live development and TMO attitude on what is fun (cockblocking others) leads to a thread like this.. which is going to go no where ultimately.


not to turn off new people from the game.. give it a go level up.. but I'd avoid the raid scene entirely or play a new game once you get there.

[Maze513]

Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

.. give it a go level up.. but I'd avoid the raid scene entirely or play a new game once you get there.

take ones own advice..

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only part we disagree on is that GM involvement would make the game more fun which is where the origin of the two server idea for casuals comes from (and I wasn't the OP of the thread ;p)


but I do agree with you that two servers will never happen (and have stated previously in this thread).. and I have little faith in the management team of the server here to solve the problems of the raid scene.

bottom line.. there will continue to be a mire of complex loosely and inconsistently enforced rules that don't strike at the root of the problem here.

Non-classic raid techniques, non-classic batphones, and non-classic strategic accounts placed all throughout the game. all of this combined with a slower than live development and TMO attitude on what is fun (cockblocking others) leads to a thread like this.. which is going to go no where ultimately.


not to turn off new people from the game.. give it a go level up.. but I'd avoid the raid scene entirely or play a new game once you get there.

The server will solve itself if they ever get around to changing the spawns to a more classic nature and do repops. The longer they waste not doing anything the worst things will get, but changing the spawns to keep all the targets spawning really close together has been viewed as a problem solver ( for the most part ).

I can not fathom why this hasn't been implemented when it has been brought up for months and months now (at least 6months) by multiple people in every thread ever about fixing the raid scene.

I am definitely not saying that the current setup is the answer, but I know for a fact that rotations will not solve problems (especially for the GMs).