Who lays claim?

[Beau]

Nilbog has made it very clear he is a true classicist. That means at some point they need to back off and let the players handle the raid disputes amongst themselves. This is not a programming issue that takes time to fix or figure out a bug or glitch, its a moral/judgement issue. "When can we back off and let the players handle their own problems."

If a mob is bugged, thats where the gm's intervene. If a guild trains , uses vulgarity, ninjaloots or Attempts/succeeds and kill steal, thats where gm intervenes. If players break their own rules, that's their own honor, and there are ways of handling it.

If i make a new guild tomorrow would they be subject to these rules? They had no part in making or agreeing to them. So technically they are not a part of it.

Like I said before ... Silly. Childish and silly.

[anthony210]

Originally Posted by Beau [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nilbog has made it very clear he is a true classicist. That means at some point they need to back off and let the players handle the raid disputes amongst themselves. This is not a programming issue that takes time to fix or figure out a bug or glitch, its a moral/judgement issue. "When can we back off and let the players handle their own problems."

If a mob is bugged, thats where the gm's intervene. If a guild trains , uses vulgarity, ninjaloots or Attempts/succeeds and kill steal, thats where gm intervenes. If players break their own rules, that's their own honor, and there are ways of handling it.

If i make a new guild tomorrow would they be subject to these rules? They had no part in making or agreeing to them. So technically they are not a part of it.

Like I said before ... Silly. Childish and silly.

There has to be some order and rules to raiding. Otherwise a guild like IB or any guild really that has the power to can say "Fuck you all we are taking every raid mob and there is nothing you can do about it, even if we got there second we are pulling and engaging".

Without order there is chaos, and I even though I wasnt there for it I believe this is the reason the rotation was put in and also the reason we now have these set of rules.

And by the way, rotations and various other rules were upheld by GMs on various live servers. On my server we had a rotation!

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Beau [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That means at some point they need to back off and let the players handle the raid disputes amongst themselves.

This is how we started the server. If you're really interested in how the current rules developed, I'm sure its still available in search. Days and days of posts in there.

I would.. *love* to never have to be called to intervene on anything. The prospect that players can decide things for themselves was and is the goal. It did NOT happen like that here.

I don't have the time to type up the whole story for you, but I'm sure other people know it and like I said, a plethora of reading is available in the search.

We gave the players... more than enough time and opportunities for their own rules. Then weeks of suggestions.

This needs more effort from the players, *not* the GMs. Please work out things amongst yourselves, and never call us. You don't have to follow our stupid rules if you can police yourselves. If a GM is called.. be prepared for a verdict though, just like on Live.

I can't stress strongly enough about how bad it was prior to raid rules. Wow.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is how we started the server. If you're really interested in how the current rules developed, I'm sure its still available in search. Days and days of posts in there.

I would.. *love* to never have to be called to intervene on anything. The prospect that players can decide things for themselves was and is the goal. It did NOT happen like that here.

I don't have the time to type up the whole story for you, but I'm sure other people know it and like I said, a plethora of reading is available in the search.

We gave the players... more than enough time and opportunities for their own rules. Then weeks of suggestions.

This needs more effort from the players, *not* the GMs. Please work out things amongst yourselves, and never call us. You don't have to follow our stupid rules if you can police yourselves. If a GM is called.. be prepared for a verdict though, just like on Live.

I can't stress strongly enough about how bad it was prior to raid rules. Wow.

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

Like I've said from the beginning, we were never allowed to even attempt 'first to engage' rules like on live because Allizia and I were instantly and repeatedly told to stop or summoned to different zones to try and come up with some play nice rules.

Right now its a shit fest with people AFK camping literally for days, prohibiting guild members from even enjoying the game if they want to do something other than sit in a zone with a raid target for 24 hours to maintain a pointless number for a raid target.

Edit: And I can understand why you could think its better now, being absent from the picture a large portion of the time.

And by absent, I mean doing much more important things and not even concerning yourself with the end game guilds. Which is how it should be.

[anthony210]

Originally Posted by Otto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

Like I've said from the beginning, we were never allowed to even attempt 'first to engage' rules like on live because Allizia and I were instantly and repeatedly told to stop or summoned to different zones to try and come up with some play nice rules.

Right now its a shit fest with people AFK camping literally for days, prohibiting guild members from even enjoying the game if they want to do something other than sit in a zone with a raid target for 24 hours to maintain a pointless number for a raid target.

Edit: And I can understand why you could think its better now, being absent from the picture a large portion of the time.

And by absent, I mean doing much more important things and not even concerning yourself with the end game guilds. Which is how it should be.

Otto but it has come to people doing this because of the level IB has taken raiding to on this server. I am not saying it is wrong that the IB guys can move on targets so fast but others cant and so they have to camp and hope for a spawn while they are there.

I would LOVE to not have to camp a raid target to get boss kills, unfortunatly for everyone that isnt in IB you pretty much have to. This is one of the reasons I am for a rotation, this way everyone can have a chance to down bosses and not just a select few guilds.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by anthony210 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Otto but it has come to people doing this because of the level IB has taken raiding to on this server. I am not saying it is wrong that the IB guys can move on targets so fast but others cant and so they have to camp and hope for a spawn while they are there.

I would LOVE to not have to camp a raid target to get boss kills, unfortunatly for everyone that isnt in IB you pretty much have to. This is one of the reasons I am for a rotation, this way everyone can have a chance to down bosses and not just a select few guilds.

IB brought raiding to a standard live-like level. In fact, I'll be the first to say on live there were plenty of guilds both more talented and hardcore than us.

[anthony210]

Originally Posted by Otto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB brought raiding to a standard live-like level. In fact, I'll be the first to say on live there were plenty of guilds both more talented and hardcore than us.

But why does this server have to be so hardcore. Why cant we all just get along and take turns killing bosses? Why does there have be this constant bickering between guilds over who has 15 or who dropped below 15 or whos guild has is favored by GMs?

Even if we dont take turns why cant guilds just use some common sense and say "Hey, it looks like DA was here first, lets let them have the first shot even if we think they will wipe".

Instead we have this "OMG DA dropped below 15 players! They lost their turn!".

[Raren]

QQ Wonton

[moebius8]

Originally Posted by anthony210 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But why does this server have to be so hardcore. Why cant we all just get along and take turns killing bosses? Why does there have be this constant bickering between guilds over who has 15 or who dropped below 15 or whos guild has is favored by GMs?

Even if we dont take turns why cant guilds just use some common sense and say "Hey, it looks like DA was here first, lets let them have the first shot even if we think they will wipe".

Instead we have this "OMG DA dropped below 15 players! They lost their turn!".

that is how classic was, i dont know if its because i played on live/progression from oct 99 to jan 2010 or because i have a better memory then most however this is the exact same shit that happened constantly until end game content was instanced.

You cant bitch about a guild with a decent organization cockblocking the rest because is exactly how business was conducted.
the only way to win is to be more rabid and hardcore then who ever is on top. Luckily no guild can maintain the pace for long so bide your time and get your kills where you can.
if you can get the second best cleric and tank it will put a lot of pressure on whoever is left carrying the load fyi.

The members burn out and then the next line who manages to hold their shit together gets a chance at the content. just keep chipping away and if you can cause some dissension in the ranks of which ever guild is currently on top. Nothing like a nice guild schism to shake the old server rankings up.

[Modus]

Originally Posted by Otto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB brought raiding to a standard live-like level. In fact, I'll be the first to say on live there were plenty of guilds both more talented and hardcore than us.

Sullon Zek population makes P99's look like sandbox-snot-nose children.

IB has done nothing more than play cell-phone commando on a server where they've recruited 60% of the level 50 population, and with an 8-month start over the guild that's kicking their ass at the moment.

4/6 raid targets went to Dark Ascension this round, and IB is quickly mobilizing to have the rules they wanted changed in their favor, again.

Looks like you'll have to transfer to EZ-Server if you want to dominate newbs.

edit:
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]