Who lays claim?

[Beau]

I've seen gm's fired for that.~

[Evorix]

can't get fired if you own the server

[Beau]

Originally Posted by Evorix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

can't get fired if you own the server

Right but thats kinda the point...

[Beau]

Nilbog has made it very clear he is a true classicist. That means at some point they need to back off and let the players handle the raid disputes amongst themselves. This is not a programming issue that takes time to fix or figure out a bug or glitch, its a moral/judgement issue. "When can we back off and let the players handle their own problems."

If a mob is bugged, thats where the gm's intervene. If a guild trains , uses vulgarity, ninjaloots or Attempts/succeeds and kill steal, thats where gm intervenes. If players break their own rules, that's their own honor, and there are ways of handling it.

If i make a new guild tomorrow would they be subject to these rules? They had no part in making or agreeing to them. So technically they are not a part of it.

Like I said before ... Silly. Childish and silly.

[anthony210]

Originally Posted by Beau [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nilbog has made it very clear he is a true classicist. That means at some point they need to back off and let the players handle the raid disputes amongst themselves. This is not a programming issue that takes time to fix or figure out a bug or glitch, its a moral/judgement issue. "When can we back off and let the players handle their own problems."

If a mob is bugged, thats where the gm's intervene. If a guild trains , uses vulgarity, ninjaloots or Attempts/succeeds and kill steal, thats where gm intervenes. If players break their own rules, that's their own honor, and there are ways of handling it.

If i make a new guild tomorrow would they be subject to these rules? They had no part in making or agreeing to them. So technically they are not a part of it.

Like I said before ... Silly. Childish and silly.

There has to be some order and rules to raiding. Otherwise a guild like IB or any guild really that has the power to can say "Fuck you all we are taking every raid mob and there is nothing you can do about it, even if we got there second we are pulling and engaging".

Without order there is chaos, and I even though I wasnt there for it I believe this is the reason the rotation was put in and also the reason we now have these set of rules.

And by the way, rotations and various other rules were upheld by GMs on various live servers. On my server we had a rotation!

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Beau [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That means at some point they need to back off and let the players handle the raid disputes amongst themselves.

This is how we started the server. If you're really interested in how the current rules developed, I'm sure its still available in search. Days and days of posts in there.

I would.. *love* to never have to be called to intervene on anything. The prospect that players can decide things for themselves was and is the goal. It did NOT happen like that here.

I don't have the time to type up the whole story for you, but I'm sure other people know it and like I said, a plethora of reading is available in the search.

We gave the players... more than enough time and opportunities for their own rules. Then weeks of suggestions.

This needs more effort from the players, *not* the GMs. Please work out things amongst yourselves, and never call us. You don't have to follow our stupid rules if you can police yourselves. If a GM is called.. be prepared for a verdict though, just like on Live.

I can't stress strongly enough about how bad it was prior to raid rules. Wow.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is how we started the server. If you're really interested in how the current rules developed, I'm sure its still available in search. Days and days of posts in there.

I would.. *love* to never have to be called to intervene on anything. The prospect that players can decide things for themselves was and is the goal. It did NOT happen like that here.

I don't have the time to type up the whole story for you, but I'm sure other people know it and like I said, a plethora of reading is available in the search.

We gave the players... more than enough time and opportunities for their own rules. Then weeks of suggestions.

This needs more effort from the players, *not* the GMs. Please work out things amongst yourselves, and never call us. You don't have to follow our stupid rules if you can police yourselves. If a GM is called.. be prepared for a verdict though, just like on Live.

I can't stress strongly enough about how bad it was prior to raid rules. Wow.

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

Like I've said from the beginning, we were never allowed to even attempt 'first to engage' rules like on live because Allizia and I were instantly and repeatedly told to stop or summoned to different zones to try and come up with some play nice rules.

Right now its a shit fest with people AFK camping literally for days, prohibiting guild members from even enjoying the game if they want to do something other than sit in a zone with a raid target for 24 hours to maintain a pointless number for a raid target.

Edit: And I can understand why you could think its better now, being absent from the picture a large portion of the time.

And by absent, I mean doing much more important things and not even concerning yourself with the end game guilds. Which is how it should be.

[anthony210]

Originally Posted by Otto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

Like I've said from the beginning, we were never allowed to even attempt 'first to engage' rules like on live because Allizia and I were instantly and repeatedly told to stop or summoned to different zones to try and come up with some play nice rules.

Right now its a shit fest with people AFK camping literally for days, prohibiting guild members from even enjoying the game if they want to do something other than sit in a zone with a raid target for 24 hours to maintain a pointless number for a raid target.

Edit: And I can understand why you could think its better now, being absent from the picture a large portion of the time.

And by absent, I mean doing much more important things and not even concerning yourself with the end game guilds. Which is how it should be.

Otto but it has come to people doing this because of the level IB has taken raiding to on this server. I am not saying it is wrong that the IB guys can move on targets so fast but others cant and so they have to camp and hope for a spawn while they are there.

I would LOVE to not have to camp a raid target to get boss kills, unfortunatly for everyone that isnt in IB you pretty much have to. This is one of the reasons I am for a rotation, this way everyone can have a chance to down bosses and not just a select few guilds.