Alter End-Game Mechanics

[fischsemmel]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If there was a perfect system in which raid targets spawned simultaneously within a certain window:

• Would guilds still poopsock?
• Would a single guild still get most of the targets?

From what I've seen, raiding guilds on p99 have far greater numbers than were historically on my eqlive server. I would hate to make a system that somehow made things worse :T

Anyways, keep up the proposals. Hopefully something is suggested that supports more guilds getting targets without diminishing competition.

1. With any kind of window, either poopsocking or tracking is going to happen until the server gets to a point where no one cares enough about kills/loot to put in the time. And that doesn't seem likely to happen short of all the un-casual players quitting.

2. One guild would not have gotten most of the kills on the last two repops if either a) the other guilds had picked targets they could realistically kill before TMO showed up to compete and/or b) everyone knew what time the repop was going to occur. It also would have helped for the repop to be during a time when the most players tend to be logged into the server.


Imagine the system below:

1. Trak, maestro, and draco have a 1-hour window in which all three of the mobs will simultaneously spawn. This happens every 3-ish days.
2. Oldworld dragons, gods, outdoor dragons, VS, and VP have a 1-hour window in which all of the mobs will simultaneously spawn. This happens every 7-ish days.
3. The "-ish" accounts for a staff-selected time when the window will be near the 3/7-day mark.
4. The window's opening and closing times will be made known on the p99 site and ingame.

The 1-hour window is there just for a bit of... I don't know, I guess excitement. A chance for people to maybe make it in in time even if they aren't free at the instant the window opens. Whatever. It isn't really of consequence, I don't think, whether this exists or not. HOWEVER, any larger of a window will certainly work against the casual guilds being online in full force when stuff pops.

The 3-day window forces the more dedicated guilds to race/FTE/whatever for Trak to get those tasty BPs and teeth at the cost of missing out on the couple of nice things maestro and draco still have for these guilds. Yeah, TMO could split its forces and kill trak, draco, and maestro at the same time, but I think that thinning of forces really increases the chance of losing 1+ of the mobs to a guild that focuses. Smaller/more casual guilds get to head to/already be in hate or fear, though they certainly still need to be racing because enough people were certainly logged out on ledge to kill trak within minutes of the server coming up.

The 7-day window forces the more dedicated guilds to pick their priority targets. Maybe a guild can split 2 ways, but certainly not 3. VS, Inny, and CT are most likely the biggest targets, but so long as not all of the guilds try to race each other to those three targets, there are still 6 dragons out there sitting around just waiting to cough up their scales and cloaks and belts and shields and such.

Staff picking the windows can try to spread spawns out so that things aren't always popping at 8-11 pm est, etc. Everyone being on notice of when the window opens will give everyone an equal warning to try to be online at the right time, saving the more casual guilds from having to play 24/7 to compete and letting the more dedicated guilds play their alts or farm or whatever without worrying about being interrupted by a batphone.



Alternatively, the 1-hour window remains 1-hour but not everything spawns at the same time. Logging out at your highest priority target is suddenly a huge risk, because if he doesn't pop right away you could potentially lose an hour of other guilds killing everything else.

Random idea, not sure exactly how it would work because I lost my train of thought on it: raid mobs despawn if not engaged within a certain amount of time, and then perhaps their respawn is shortened cumulatively with multiple despawns? I don't know what the hell I was going for when that popped into my head.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Nobody poopsocks!!! The closest thing to a full raid force sitting on a spawn, ready for the engage the second the mobs pops, that exists in p99 is the occasional maestro poopsock. Other than that, guilds have individual characters that sit in zones watching for a raid mob to pop.

GET OUT OF THIS THREAD YOU GOD DAMNED NOOB. I've warned you before, you know nothing about the raid scene on this server and this post, this #1, just lays your ignorance out on the table for EVERYONE to witness and laugh at. The only reason people aren't poopsocking is because we've given up trying to combat TMO, as Ravager has already pointed out. Poopsocks will commence again when someone challenges TMO.

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. With any kind of window, either poopsocking or tracking is going to happen until the server gets to a point where no one cares enough about kills/loot to put in the time. And that doesn't seem likely to happen short of all the un-casual players quitting.

The only ones that care that much is TMO and yourself (congrats on putting in the tracking hours for no competition!). The only un-casual players are TMO, and possibly the more hardcore members of BDA/Divinity/Taken/Acyrid.

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. One guild would not have gotten most of the kills on the last two repops if either a) the other guilds had picked targets they could realistically kill before TMO showed up to compete and/or b) everyone knew what time the repop was going to occur. It also would have helped for the repop to be during a time when the most players tend to be logged into the server.

Again, you display your ignorance for everyone to mock. TMO can outmobilize anyone. If TMO shows up to Hate to kill Inny when BDA is already in Hate, TMO will fight for FTE instead of going to Fear to get CT, then they will beat Taken+Divinity (fictitious alliance) to CT because Takinity are clearing the zone instead of training it. TMO could just as easily spend an hour clearing VP and then the rest of the server would have most of the non-VP targets down by then, but they don't. TMO actively chooses to kill non-VP targets first knowing they will not have competition in VP. There is not a single target that any other guild "could realistically kill before TMO showed up to compete".

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Truth.

TMO will do it, whether its fair or not, because its allowed by the server rules. "TMO gives 0 fucks", and will do what it wants until its banned by server rules (even then they'll push the envelope). If you think a server repop gives any other guild a shot at anything beyond their initial target, you're more ignorant to the guild you are in, the raid scene you participate in, and the server you play on than I realized.

Edit: I captured your post before you got to clean up some of your moronic dribble, Fisch.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GET OUT OF THIS THREAD YOU GOD DAMNED NOOB. I've warned you before, you know nothing about the raid scene on this server and this post, this #1, just lays your ignorance out on the table for EVERYONE to witness and laugh at. The only reason people aren't poopsocking is because we've given up trying to combat TMO, as Ravager has already pointed out. Poopsocks will commence again when someone challenges TMO.



The only ones that care that much is TMO and yourself (congrats on putting in the tracking hours for no competition!). The only un-casual players are TMO, and possibly the more hardcore members of BDA/Divinity/Taken/Acyrid.



Again, you display your ignorance for everyone to mock. TMO can outmobilize anyone. If TMO shows up to Hate to kill Inny when BDA is already in Hate, TMO will fight for FTE instead of going to Fear to get CT, then they will beat Taken+Divinity (fictitious alliance) to CT because Takinity are clearing the zone instead of training it. TMO could just as easily spend an hour clearing VP and then the rest of the server would have most of the non-VP targets down by then, but they don't. TMO actively chooses to kill non-VP targets first knowing they will not have competition in VP. There is not a single target that any other guild "could realistically kill before TMO showed up to compete".

TMO will do it, whether its fair or not, because its allowed by the server rules. "TMO gives 0 fucks", and will do what it wants until its banned by server rules (even then they'll push the envelope). If you think a server repop gives any other guild a shot at anything beyond their initial target, you're more ignorant to the guild you are in, the raid scene you participate in, and the server you play on than I realized.

Edit: I captured your post before you got to clean up some of your moronic dribble, Fisch.

Everyone has a right to comment on this thread.

Maybe you should log off the forums for a few, go for a run or something, and come back when you are less volatile cause you are making yourself look like an idiot, and an asshole, and I personally don't think you are one.

[fischsemmel]

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. One guild would not have gotten most of the kills on the last two repops if either a) the other guilds had picked targets they could realistically kill before TMO showed up to compete and/or b) everyone knew what time the repop was going to occur. It also would have helped for the repop to be during a time when the most players tend to be logged into the server.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you display your ignorance for everyone to mock. TMO can outmobilize anyone. If TMO shows up to Hate to kill Inny when BDA is already in Hate, TMO will fight for FTE instead of going to Fear to get CT, then they will beat Taken+Divinity (fictitious alliance) to CT because Takinity are clearing the zone instead of training it. TMO could just as easily spend an hour clearing VP and then the rest of the server would have most of the non-VP targets down by then, but they don't. TMO actively chooses to kill non-VP targets first knowing they will not have competition in VP. There is not a single target that any other guild "could realistically kill before TMO showed up to compete".

Quit raging for a minute and re-read this stuff.

I'm talking about a situation where there was a full repop and everyone knew it was coming and it was at a time when multiple guilds could field decent raid forces.

Do you really think that TMO would have left VS, CT (and draco), Inny (and maestro) up to have split forces to contest Sev, Tal, and Gore, if BDA, Taken, and Divinity had gone after those dragons instead of going up into the planes?

That's what I'm talking about. The other guilds on the server can get multiple kills on a full respawn IF THEY PICK THE RIGHT TARGETS. And, of course, the right targets are NOT VS, Inny, and CT.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quit raging for a minute and re-read this stuff.

I'm talking about a situation where there was a full repop and everyone knew it was coming and it was at a time when multiple guilds could field decent raid forces.

Do you really think that TMO would have left VS, CT (and draco), Inny (and maestro) up to have split forces to contest Sev, Tal, and Gore, if BDA, Taken, and Divinity had gone after those dragons instead of going up into the planes?

That's what I'm talking about. The other guilds on the server can get multiple kills on a full respawn IF THEY PICK THE RIGHT TARGETS. And, of course, the right targets are NOT VS, Inny, and CT.

Didn't you join TMO after IB disbanded and VD imploded Fisch? I think that's what's frustrating Deajay, because as recently as two months ago there was massive poopsocking and general faggotry in the raid scene (from both sides) whereas now TMO mostly gets a free pass. This state is kind of self-reinforcing as well because anyone who really wants to raid seriously joins them now, and if you never experienced the ridiculous amounts of time and energy people devote to "competition" in EQ you don't really know what you're talking about. If you joined TMO three months ago I take that all back of course.

Uhoh, I broke my rule not to flame on the forums again. Somehow the forums turn nice people into utter douches. I think every single person in this thread is way way way nicer in game than they are on the forums.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imagine the system below:

1. Trak, maestro, and draco have a 1-hour window in which all three of the mobs will simultaneously spawn. This happens every 3-ish days.
2. Oldworld dragons, gods, outdoor dragons, VS, and VP have a 1-hour window in which all of the mobs will simultaneously spawn. This happens every 7-ish days.
3. The "-ish" accounts for a staff-selected time when the window will be near the 3/7-day mark.
4. The window's opening and closing times will be made known on the p99 site and ingame.

The 3-day window forces the more dedicated guilds to race/FTE/whatever for Trak to get those tasty BPs and teeth at the cost of missing out on the couple of nice things maestro and draco still have for these guilds. Yeah, TMO could split its forces and kill trak, draco, and maestro at the same time, but I think that thinning of forces really increases the chance of losing 1+ of the mobs to a guild that focuses. Smaller/more casual guilds get to head to/already be in hate or fear, though they certainly still need to be racing because enough people were certainly logged out on ledge to kill trak within minutes of the server coming up.

You really are that ignorant... Even for casual guilds it only takes 15ish people to kill Draco and Maestro. TMO could keep 25 at Trak and still dispatch 15 for Maestro and Draco simultaneously. TMO would also go for Maestro first, Draco second, and Trak third because Maestro is the most heavily contested and easiest to get. Draco is the second easiest to get, and no other guild could muster the forces to kill Trak before TMO logged back over and engaged Trak. I can't believe your ignorance in the end-game raid scene to even suggest otherwise.

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 7-day window forces the more dedicated guilds to pick their priority targets. Maybe a guild can split 2 ways, but certainly not 3. VS, Inny, and CT are most likely the biggest targets, but so long as not all of the guilds try to race each other to those three targets, there are still 6 dragons out there sitting around just waiting to cough up their scales and cloaks and belts and shields and such.

Staff picking the windows can try to spread spawns out so that things aren't always popping at 8-11 pm est, etc. Everyone being on notice of when the window opens will give everyone an equal warning to try to be online at the right time, saving the more casual guilds from having to play 24/7 to compete and letting the more dedicated guilds play their alts or farm or whatever without worrying about being interrupted by a batphone.

Alternatively, the 1-hour window remains 1-hour but not everything spawns at the same time. Logging out at your highest priority target is suddenly a huge risk, because if he doesn't pop right away you could potentially lose an hour of other guilds killing everything else.

Random idea, not sure exactly how it would work because I lost my train of thought on it: raid mobs despawn if not engaged within a certain amount of time, and then perhaps their respawn is shortened cumulatively with multiple despawns? I don't know what the hell I was going for when that popped into my head.

This is no different than the 3-day idea. TMO would camp at VS because he's an easy and also high priority target. Then they would go get Inny (who has the best shot at dieing to another guild). Third would be CT due to his high priority. TMO will get a train going, and will drop that train on any other guild who engages CT (I've seen it happen for both CT and Draco). After CT, they'd go for the Kunark dragons, probably Faydedar (if he hasn't been killed by anyone who decided not to go for CT) while the CT guild still CRed from their train. After Faydedar, TMO would head to Talendor or Severilous, then the other, and finally Gorenaire (who probably wiped the other guilds first and only attempt). Finally, after they've swiped up every pop except 2-3 (tops), they'd stroll into VP to claim their free loots because the competition is over.

But, if you had raced TMO during a full respawn before, you might already know this. Seeing as how you have neither raced against, nor with TMO for any serious respawn, you have no idea how this works.

The only one you are fooling with your idea is yourself. I'm content with challenging 1-2 things against TMO per respawn cycle, but do not attempt to delude your ignorant beliefs upon others.

[Jimes]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You really are that ignorant... Even for casual guilds it only takes 15ish people to kill Draco

Sounds like a pretty simple task. Why don't guilds do it then? Get it tracked, use the tools available to communicate the spawn quickly to the guild, get ports, kill, and do it faster than tmo if you want the kill. It's not hard. As of now you put forth zero effort and then shed tears all over the forum about how entitled you are to the kill. Doesn't work that way.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Jimes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds like a pretty simple task. Why don't guilds do it then? Get it tracked, use the tools available to communicate the spawn quickly to the guild, get ports, kill, and do it faster than tmo if you want the kill. It's not hard. As of now you put forth zero effort and then shed tears all over the forum about how entitled you are to the kill. Doesn't work that way.

The last time VD did this before it disbanded, Fauss dropped a train on our kill and we wiped at 1%. No I don't have fraps, and no you won't believe me because I don't have any evidence, but I know what you did.

Its not zero effort, its a moral decision to not resort to the same underhanded tactics.

[fischsemmel]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You really are that ignorant... Even for casual guilds it only takes 15ish people to kill Draco and Maestro. TMO could keep 25 at Trak and still dispatch 15 for Maestro and Draco simultaneously. TMO would also go for Maestro first, Draco second, and Trak third because Maestro is the most heavily contested and easiest to get. Draco is the second easiest to get, and no other guild could muster the forces to kill Trak before TMO logged back over and engaged Trak. I can't believe your ignorance in the end-game raid scene to even suggest otherwise.

It's not that simple in reality, though.

We did wipe out of hate a couple maestros ago, and that wasn't splitting forces.
We did wipe out on trak a couple weeks ago, and that wasn't splitting forces.
I don't recall a wipe to draco lately, but that train can be tricky and if it gets loose it can take a while to get into kill-ready state again, I guess.

Shit happens, ya know? And that's why I said it would be risky to split forces 3 ways on this hypothetical repop, assuming that the other guilds were all present with decent raid forces too.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is no different than the 3-day idea. TMO would camp at VS because he's an easy and also high priority target. Then they would go get Inny (who has the best shot at dieing to another guild). Third would be CT due to his high priority. TMO will get a train going, and will drop that train on any other guild who engages CT (I've seen it happen for both CT and Draco). After CT, they'd go for the Kunark dragons, probably Faydedar (if he hasn't been killed by anyone who decided not to go for CT) while the CT guild still CRed from their train. After Faydedar, TMO would head to Talendor or Severilous, then the other, and finally Gorenaire (who probably wiped the other guilds first and only attempt). Finally, after they've swiped up every pop except 2-3 (tops), they'd stroll into VP to claim their free loots because the competition is over.

Again, do you think TMO would split 3 ways to contest a few outdoor dragons and leave VS and the gods up?



Also, what do you have to say about the "everything respawns at some point within a 1-hour window, but not necessarily simultaneously within that window" idea? Wouldn't that address the whole issue of camping out at the highest target and then proceeding through mobs in a certain order?

Hypo: TMO logs in at trak ledge. Trak's not up. BDA has 50 people on ledge also. Inny is up. Fay is up. Taken has 30 in hate clearing to Inny. Divinity has 20 in oasis waiting on raft. What's going to happen? Hell if I know. But I bet TMO isn't going to clean sweep the server.