Corpse dragging by faction - Velious Discussion

[Spitty]

The point I was trying to make was that it became painfully obvious early on that raid zones could be exploited by corpse dragging and corpse aggro was built into the expansion upon release. Someone suggested that the aggro was added later, and that simply isn't true.

I forgot entirely that this board's makeup is largely people who need to correct everyone else in order to feel good about themselves, or I would have just made that point and not included a goddamn example to back it up.

[nilbog]

Okay here are the confirmed rules so far:

Testing environment
zone: kael
pc: rallos zek ogre (dubious con)

Dragging my own corpse = no aggro

Dragging a corpse of someone who is kos in range of npc = aggro

Dragging a corpse of someone who is kos in range of npc while invised = no aggro

Dragging a corpse of someone who isn't kos (another dubious ogre) in range of npc = aggro

Initiating a corpse drag out of range of npc, leaving the corpse, then approaching the npcs = no aggro


Tested in great divide = no aggro
Tested in thurgadin = no aggro
Tested in icewell keep = aggro

So,

-Faction of corpse's player is irrelevant. Dragging corpses in zones where this rule exists equals aggro.
-Dragging your own corpse is safe.
-Dragging someone else's corpse out of range of npcs does not equal zone aggro. They must see you perform the action in aggro radius.
-Dragging someone else's corpse within range while invisible doesn't aggro. The npc must see through invis to aggro.

Remaining questions:
What all zones should this happen in?

Kael - yes
Thurgadinb - yes

I assume skyshrine, temple of veeshan, and plane of growth. How about plane of mischief?

[DoucLangur]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay here are the confirmed rules so far:

[..]
-Faction of corpse's player is irrelevant. Dragging corpses in zones where this rule exists equals aggro.
-Dragging your own corpse is safe.
-Dragging someone else's corpse out of range of npcs does not equal zone aggro. They must see you perform the action in aggro radius.
-Dragging someone else's corpse within range while invisible doesn't aggro. The npc must see through invis to aggro.

I am positively surprised that this coincides 100% with my memory of how things were - I did not dare speak up against the irrelevance of faction of the corpse "owner" - since I wasn't too sure, just gut feeling [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you confirm this on EQMac?

[Daliant17447]

Not sure if this is still an active topic but I came across this recently:

http://web.archive.org/web/200005111...rds.asp?show=3

You have to be kidding me. Corpse dragging is instant argo in some SoV zones?

How about a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit more info. Will Rogues hide / sneak be broken while pulling bodies? Will regular invis disappear? Are you prepared to tell a player that looses everything that he spent months if not years getting that "Sorry, there is nothing I can do" if he cant get a Corpse summoned or pulled out? Just what are the limits?

Ok, here's a bit more information.

The idea is that there are some places where, with a good faction, characters can travel unharmed. Some of those places are very, very dangerous to those that are not aligned with the folks that live there. These will be major adventuring/hunting zones for those that don’t mind not being able to wander around free there and talk to the locals.

We really like it that way, but setting things up like that leads to a simple problem. Folks that are hated by the natives can make assaults on them and have their 'friends' who are well liked by the locals simply drag their corpses to safety, right in front of the people they were trying to kill. There are other potential abuses of this situation that I won't describe…

So, to maintain the risk of fighting in these difficult places, we had to have these mobs get upset when you drag their kills off. And, yes, rogues and invisible types will have to be a lot more careful doing their recoveries once they actually lift that corpse up on their shoulders and start to scamper away.

You will not have a problem dragging your own corpse (at least not any more of a problem than you would normally have). So if you accidentally fall to your death and you are friendly with the natives, you will be able to drag your own corpse all over the zone with no additional problems. But then, you won't need a safe spot either…

This will make corpse recovery a little bit more difficult in the few places where this rule is used. But we see this as a necessary and useful inclusion. We wanted to tell you about it before hand to help reduce the number of people surprised by this addition.

Alan

Yikes!

Correction on my last post.

Dragging a corpse will not make you more visible. So if the creature sees through invis, it will still see you dragging a corpse. If it does not, dragging a corpse will not increase your visibility to that creature.

Sorry for the goof on that. Hopefully I caught it fast enough.

Alan

Axterix wrote: "Absor: Let's say that Joe and myself, who are both friendly with the things in the dungeon, are going about our business. Joe takes a nice 10k plunge off a cliff. I go air elemental and float down to his body.

Joe isn't KoS. I'm not KoS. Can I drag his body safely?

Basically, you've stated that you can drag your own body around with no additional risk... what I want to know is does it merely look at if the body is yours or not or at the factions of the owner of the body?"

Normally we don't like to go into too much detail about stuff like this. But this works differently than people are used to, and we don’t want there to be too much confusion over this. You're right in your assumption. Dragging any corpse but your own will cause a reaction in those around you. Corpses don't have faction… So your friend will have to walk back and get his own corpse.

Feydakin said: "I think this is the heart of the debate: Is dragging a hated corpse a "faction hit" or does it just put you on a mob's hate list and cause it to attack. It is understood that if you are attacked and defeat the mob, you would take a faction hit. But the question that I'm seeing asked and not answered is whether you take and actual FACTION HIT by merely dragging a corpse.

Can I, for instance, have good faction, but hightail it to the zone, dragging my buddy's corpse, and assuming I zone safely... have I lost faction with the pursuing mobs, or does zoning clean the hate list and I'm back to being best pals with them when I zone back over?"

There is no faction hit for dragging a corpse. You can do exactly as you suggest in your last paragraph with no loss of faction. And I'd consider you a brave and foolish friend for doing so.

Alan

The way I understand it is: Dragging ANY corpse regardless of what the corpse owner's faction is, will flag the dragger KOS to any mobs in the area that can see the dragger. If the dragger is invis and the mob does NOT see invis, you can drag a corpse past it safely.

[Daliant17447]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay here are the confirmed rules so far:

Testing environment
zone: kael
pc: rallos zek ogre (dubious con)

Dragging my own corpse = no aggro

Dragging a corpse of someone who is kos in range of npc = aggro

Dragging a corpse of someone who is kos in range of npc while invised = no aggro

Dragging a corpse of someone who isn't kos (another dubious ogre) in range of npc = aggro

Initiating a corpse drag out of range of npc, leaving the corpse, then approaching the npcs = no aggro


Tested in great divide = no aggro
Tested in thurgadin = no aggro
Tested in icewell keep = aggro

So,

-Faction of corpse's player is irrelevant. Dragging corpses in zones where this rule exists equals aggro.
-Dragging your own corpse is safe.
-Dragging someone else's corpse out of range of npcs does not equal zone aggro. They must see you perform the action in aggro radius.
-Dragging someone else's corpse within range while invisible doesn't aggro. The npc must see through invis to aggro.

Remaining questions:
What all zones should this happen in?

Kael - yes
Thurgadinb - yes

I assume skyshrine, temple of veeshan, and plane of growth. How about plane of mischief?

Disregard my last post, I see you guys got it covered already

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay here are the confirmed rules so far:

Testing environment
zone: kael
pc: rallos zek ogre (dubious con)

Dragging my own corpse = no aggro

Dragging a corpse of someone who is kos in range of npc = aggro

Dragging a corpse of someone who is kos in range of npc while invised = no aggro

Dragging a corpse of someone who isn't kos (another dubious ogre) in range of npc = aggro

Initiating a corpse drag out of range of npc, leaving the corpse, then approaching the npcs = no aggro


Tested in great divide = no aggro
Tested in thurgadin = no aggro
Tested in icewell keep = aggro

So,

-Faction of corpse's player is irrelevant. Dragging corpses in zones where this rule exists equals aggro.
-Dragging your own corpse is safe.
-Dragging someone else's corpse out of range of npcs does not equal zone aggro. They must see you perform the action in aggro radius.
-Dragging someone else's corpse within range while invisible doesn't aggro. The npc must see through invis to aggro.

Remaining questions:
What all zones should this happen in?

Kael - yes
Thurgadinb - yes

I assume skyshrine, temple of veeshan, and plane of growth. How about plane of mischief?

Bump.

I need to know what Velious zones should follow these rules. Below, I listed all the Velious zones for completeness, but zones where everyone is kos should not matter.


greatdivide = no aggro
kael = aggro
thurgadina = no aggro
thurgadinb = aggro
cobaltscar = ?
crystal = ?
necropolis = ?
eastwastes = ?
iceclad = ?
sleeper = ?
growthplane = ?
mischiefplane = ?
sirens = ?
skyshrine = ?
templeveeshan = ?
wakening = ?
frozenshadow = ?
velketor = ?
westwastes = ?

[maximum]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bump.

I need to know what Velious zones should follow these rules. Below, I listed all the Velious zones for completeness, but zones where everyone is kos should not matter.


greatdivide = no aggro
kael = aggro
thurgadina = no aggro
thurgadinb = aggro
cobaltscar = ?
crystal = ?
necropolis = ?
eastwastes = ?
iceclad = ?
sleeper = ?
growthplane = ?
mischiefplane = ?
sirens = ?
skyshrine = ?
templeveeshan = ?
wakening = ?
frozenshadow = ?
velketor = ?
westwastes = ?

I'm pretty sure I remember westwastes being Aggro (red), but I forget of the Dragons during Velious era could see through Rogue Hide.

[Galanteer]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

greatdivide = no aggro
kael = aggro
thurgadina = no aggro
thurgadinb = aggro
cobaltscar = ?
crystal = ?
necropolis = ?
eastwastes = ?
iceclad = ?
sleeper = ?
growthplane = ?
mischiefplane = ?
sirens = ?
skyshrine = ?
templeveeshan = ?
wakening = ?
frozenshadow = ?
velketor = ?
westwastes = ?

I am pretty sure Velketor is no agro, during early Velious my entire roll in a raid was to drag corpses to the clerics while we sent multiple waves to take him down.

Enchanters could be non kos in Velks and I would often drag corpses all over. (Illusion werewolf and faction spell) Also only Velketor gave a negative faction hit (the tashing enchater would suicide or camp to avoid the hit).

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bump.

I need to know what Velious zones should follow these rules. Below, I listed all the Velious zones for completeness, but zones where everyone is kos should not matter.


greatdivide = no aggro
kael = aggro
thurgadina = no aggro
thurgadinb = aggro
cobaltscar = ?
crystal = ?
necropolis = ?
eastwastes = ?
iceclad = ?
sleeper = ?
growthplane = ?
mischiefplane = aggro
sirens = ?
skyshrine = ?
templeveeshan = ?
wakening = ?
frozenshadow = ?
velketor = ?
westwastes = ?

Bump. Anyone can test this by 2 boxing on live/eqmac afaik. Corpse drag aggro still works on eqmac; not sure about eqlive. Some zones will be more difficult than others, but there are several near cities. Skyshrine is still needed, wakening lands, iceclad, cobalt scar, etc.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bump.

I need to know what Velious zones should follow these rules. Below, I listed all the Velious zones for completeness, but zones where everyone is kos should not matter.


greatdivide = no aggro
kael = aggro
thurgadina = no aggro
thurgadinb = aggro
cobaltscar = no aggro
crystal = ?
necropolis = ?
eastwastes = no aggro
iceclad = ?
sleeper = ?
growthplane = ?
mischiefplane = aggro
sirens = no aggro
skyshrine = ?
templeveeshan = ?
wakening = no aggro
frozenshadow = ?
velketor = no aggro
westwastes = ?

Updated from Uthgaard tests.