TMO adds Talendor to the endangered dragon list

[Xadion]

Here is my personal thoughts on VD vs TMO or how ever you want to state it.

VD was used by DA to beat IB in sky back in classic- we all got loot from this- kunark hit and DA did the whole stupid mergeing thing and all sorts of stupidness happend... by all in all DA basically split to TMO and IB/TR - the DA members that moved to TMO gave them the numbers and some gear to start ramping up the raid scene.

Fast forward some more- TMO starts to beat IB/TR in some encounters- IB/TR starts to loose their standard members that always get geared from being 'pal' status - and awate VP/Velious- so they start to use VD to boost their numbers etc etc

Fast forward to TR/IB starting to leave the server- or whatever you belive-- VD says "We are = to ib/tr and > TMO we should get XYZ" - TMO says no we are not handing you mobs you must prove it.

Fighting to get into a top-tier raid position on this server is hard, it was a long hard road in DA to get into even a 20% share of raid mobs vs TR/IB and harder to keep that foothold and increase it.... so TMO is not going to GIVE it to VD-

Fast forward some more- VD failed at asserting themselves as the guild they claimed to be- members and leaders QQed and made up whatever reasons they wanted to move on- thats fine, EQ is a game- enjoy playing or dont play...its a game bros.

All the while 'other' guilds where QQing that they 'could not' get any type of foothold because of the infighting between whatever top 2 forces on the server are- well thats BS imo- but Zeelot for whatever reason starts to say to leave one dragon up and only to mess with it if VD shows up- why? because remeber VD you all claimed to be the top and wanted to compete with us- so we are only doing what you all wanted... now maybe if your leaders admit you are nothing more than a scrub guild then you can maybe talk to the guilds above you into letting you into their uncontested dragons- but I dunno if Taken, BDA etc will want you to move up to their level yet.

[tekniq]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vd is fully allowed to compete with tmo on any mob, if they want the free dragons they have to compete with tmo, all the free dragons do is offer a non-compete raid to other guilds who don't get to do them
How is this hard to understand

Here's a good analogy. The Washington Wizards and the Miami Heat are both in the NBA, but what are the odds the wizards will beat the heat in a game.. I highly doubt they are your competition anymore.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by tekniq [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's a good analogy. The Washington Wizards and the Miami H
eat are both in the NBA, but what are the odds the wizards will beat the heat in a game.. I highly doubt they are your competition anymore.

I don't watch basketball
Also, I suggested vd officers to talk to ours.....

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Xadion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VD says "We are = to ib/tr and > TMO we should get XYZ" - TMO says no we are not handing you mobs you must prove it.

From my viewpoint (as a VD in case you don't read my sig), VD did not try to claim we were better than TMO, but that we can slay any dragon TMO can. I'm not trying to downplay your effort in getting to the top, you guys busted chops, threw countless members at mobs, lost, and worked tooth and nail for your position. I see that you are at the top, you earned your place, and you do feel like sharing the top about as much as a kid wants to give up his ice cream cone. That's fine.

What VD was advocating with TMO was a rotation for the biggest poopsock of all, Trak. He's in window as much or more as he's out of window, and he's a 3-day spawn. He's just a large pain in the ass for everyone 'socking.

With respect to VP, VD wanted to continue the agreement TR/TMO had when they entered into VP for the first time. TMO claims anyone can walk into VP, but the two guilds who started in VP had:
1) a forced rotation which allowed you to obtain initial pixels without training and/or other nonsense which is legal in VP
2) a chance to hone PVE raid tactics before adding the PVP aspects (not being forced to master both at the same time)
3) a chance to set up CoH/track bots without PVP
4) a chance to explore pathing, pulling, other zone mechanics in a controlled environment (without the PVP)

Basically, VP was a PVE zone between the two guilds, and now TMO wants to claim anyone can enter and compete within it as a PVP zone, without admitting the obvious advantage they have/had. I'm not saying VD is ready to compete, I'm not saying TMO couldn't have competed if it had been PVP from day 1. But I am saying, on top of being the only guild actively raiding VP, the barrier to entry is raised higher than even TMO had when TMO entered.

The barrier for competition is to the point where its high enough that it doesn't look like anyone is going to bother to compete. Do I care that I'm not in VP? Eh, I'd like to see it. Do I think its worth the effort to get into VP? Not in the slightest. Right now, TMO is "the house". The odds are stacked in the house's favor, and anyone playing to beat the house is delusional.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With respect to VP, VD wanted to continue the agreement TR/TMO had when they entered into VP for the first time.

When VP opened there was no agreement between TMO and TR. It was Train-a-palooza '11. It was after both guilds showed they were basically equal, but wasting each others time, that an agreement was temporarily established.

[Splorf22]

Xadion, just listen to what you are saying here. Imagine that you are playing Super Mario Brothers at home, and your friend says "Oh ho ho, you didn't *really* beat that level, because I wasn't there trying to beat that level first!". The idea that you you get stuff "handed" to you when you, you know, kill monsters in the game, is so mind boggling silly that it's amazing I hear it from every TMO member I meet. I mean by this logic every time I see TMO camping the fungi king I should race them until they prove to me that they can . . . I mean this whole idea doesn't even make sense, so I can't continue my analogy.

The simple reality is that TMO is full of people who derive a huge amount of self esteem from having pixels and being in the top raid guild, and put in a lot of time to get there. Then suddenly everything makes sense - they want to keep the bar to entry as high as possible; it's the same reason Szeth hated simultaneous repops. To be honest, I understand that feeling - I had the second enchanter epic on the server, so I got to be part of the 1% for a few weeks. Now everyone and their brother has one, so I'm not special. But hey, I can live with that.

[Rain1]

Have target shout who has FTE.
Remove people from sitting themselves/pets on top of a raid mob spawn.
Problem solved. If a guild still has the balls to break the rules after these two fixes, eat a raiding ban.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Rain1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have target shout who has FTE.
Remove people from sitting themselves/pets on top of a raid mob spawn.
Problem solved. If a guild still has the balls to break the rules after these two fixes, eat a raiding ban.

bold = useless rule.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Jomar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure about hide, but I know for those that use invis to conceal themselves, they'll still appear as scowling to outdoor dragons (unless they have threat-or-better RoS faction of course) regardless of whether or not they are on their aggro list since those mobs see through invis. So I don't think this idea would've really worked for determining Thunder's aggro status on this particular mob. (edit: could be wrong on Talendor seeing through invis, hell if I remember. I remember Fay and Gorenaire seeing through invis though.)

And as far as eyes goes, pretty much as soon as it draws aggro from a mob, you're on the aggro list since an eye is just an extension of your character. Doesn't matter if the mob speed bumps your eye first (I think this only happens with green con mobs), it's coming for you in the end. I mean I may be wrong here, but I've tested it quite a bit and I had aggro on me every single time.

(Simulated patch days and zonewide fte shout are good ideas in my book.)

I'm almost certain Talendor does not see through hide (but sees through invis), since Gorenaire is the same way. I can hide from Gorenaire but regular invis will not work. So yes, hide does work to determine if you're aggroed.

As for the eye, I don't think you understood what I said. If the eye dies, that doesn't mean you aggroed Talendor. Talendor could have already been aggroed and the eye just got hit by an ae, for example. A mob aeing you does not put you on its aggro list necessarily. I tested this with a non-kos Bard against Gorenaire, got hit by her ae, and I was still apprehensive after.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Xadion, just listen to what you are saying here. Imagine that you are playing Super Mario Brothers at home, and your friend says "Oh ho ho, you didn't *really* beat that level, because I wasn't there trying to beat that level first!". The idea that you you get stuff "handed" to you when you, you know, kill monsters in the game, is so mind boggling silly that it's amazing I hear it from every TMO member I meet. I mean by this logic every time I see TMO camping the fungi king I should race them until they prove to me that they can . . . I mean this whole idea doesn't even make sense, so I can't continue my analogy.

The simple reality is that TMO is full of people who derive a huge amount of self esteem from having pixels and being in the top raid guild, and put in a lot of time to get there. Then suddenly everything makes sense - they want to keep the bar to entry as high as possible; it's the same reason Szeth hated simultaneous repops. To be honest, I understand that feeling - I had the second enchanter epic on the server, so I got to be part of the 1% for a few weeks. Now everyone and their brother has one, so I'm not special. But hey, I can live with that.

Your analogy never made sense, comparing a single player game to an mmo is just asinine. Eq wqs always a competition for raid mobs, until instancing, and are in now way comparable to fungi king, lol

Your second paragraph is opinion not reality, we actually want people to compete against