TMO adds Talendor to the endangered dragon list

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Xadion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VD says "We are = to ib/tr and > TMO we should get XYZ" - TMO says no we are not handing you mobs you must prove it.

From my viewpoint (as a VD in case you don't read my sig), VD did not try to claim we were better than TMO, but that we can slay any dragon TMO can. I'm not trying to downplay your effort in getting to the top, you guys busted chops, threw countless members at mobs, lost, and worked tooth and nail for your position. I see that you are at the top, you earned your place, and you do feel like sharing the top about as much as a kid wants to give up his ice cream cone. That's fine.

What VD was advocating with TMO was a rotation for the biggest poopsock of all, Trak. He's in window as much or more as he's out of window, and he's a 3-day spawn. He's just a large pain in the ass for everyone 'socking.

With respect to VP, VD wanted to continue the agreement TR/TMO had when they entered into VP for the first time. TMO claims anyone can walk into VP, but the two guilds who started in VP had:
1) a forced rotation which allowed you to obtain initial pixels without training and/or other nonsense which is legal in VP
2) a chance to hone PVE raid tactics before adding the PVP aspects (not being forced to master both at the same time)
3) a chance to set up CoH/track bots without PVP
4) a chance to explore pathing, pulling, other zone mechanics in a controlled environment (without the PVP)

Basically, VP was a PVE zone between the two guilds, and now TMO wants to claim anyone can enter and compete within it as a PVP zone, without admitting the obvious advantage they have/had. I'm not saying VD is ready to compete, I'm not saying TMO couldn't have competed if it had been PVP from day 1. But I am saying, on top of being the only guild actively raiding VP, the barrier to entry is raised higher than even TMO had when TMO entered.

The barrier for competition is to the point where its high enough that it doesn't look like anyone is going to bother to compete. Do I care that I'm not in VP? Eh, I'd like to see it. Do I think its worth the effort to get into VP? Not in the slightest. Right now, TMO is "the house". The odds are stacked in the house's favor, and anyone playing to beat the house is delusional.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With respect to VP, VD wanted to continue the agreement TR/TMO had when they entered into VP for the first time.

When VP opened there was no agreement between TMO and TR. It was Train-a-palooza '11. It was after both guilds showed they were basically equal, but wasting each others time, that an agreement was temporarily established.

[Splorf22]

Xadion, just listen to what you are saying here. Imagine that you are playing Super Mario Brothers at home, and your friend says "Oh ho ho, you didn't *really* beat that level, because I wasn't there trying to beat that level first!". The idea that you you get stuff "handed" to you when you, you know, kill monsters in the game, is so mind boggling silly that it's amazing I hear it from every TMO member I meet. I mean by this logic every time I see TMO camping the fungi king I should race them until they prove to me that they can . . . I mean this whole idea doesn't even make sense, so I can't continue my analogy.

The simple reality is that TMO is full of people who derive a huge amount of self esteem from having pixels and being in the top raid guild, and put in a lot of time to get there. Then suddenly everything makes sense - they want to keep the bar to entry as high as possible; it's the same reason Szeth hated simultaneous repops. To be honest, I understand that feeling - I had the second enchanter epic on the server, so I got to be part of the 1% for a few weeks. Now everyone and their brother has one, so I'm not special. But hey, I can live with that.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Xadion, just listen to what you are saying here. Imagine that you are playing Super Mario Brothers at home, and your friend says "Oh ho ho, you didn't *really* beat that level, because I wasn't there trying to beat that level first!". The idea that you you get stuff "handed" to you when you, you know, kill monsters in the game, is so mind boggling silly that it's amazing I hear it from every TMO member I meet. I mean by this logic every time I see TMO camping the fungi king I should race them until they prove to me that they can . . . I mean this whole idea doesn't even make sense, so I can't continue my analogy.

The simple reality is that TMO is full of people who derive a huge amount of self esteem from having pixels and being in the top raid guild, and put in a lot of time to get there. Then suddenly everything makes sense - they want to keep the bar to entry as high as possible; it's the same reason Szeth hated simultaneous repops. To be honest, I understand that feeling - I had the second enchanter epic on the server, so I got to be part of the 1% for a few weeks. Now everyone and their brother has one, so I'm not special. But hey, I can live with that.

Your analogy never made sense, comparing a single player game to an mmo is just asinine. Eq wqs always a competition for raid mobs, until instancing, and are in now way comparable to fungi king, lol

Your second paragraph is opinion not reality, we actually want people to compete against

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your analogy never made sense, comparing a single player game to an mmo is just asinine. Eq wqs always a competition for raid mobs, until instancing, and are in now way comparable to fungi king, lol

Your second paragraph is opinion not reality, we actually want people to compete against

i'd rape the shit out of anyone going for fungi king against me.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Xadion]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your analogy never made sense, comparing a single player game to an mmo is just asinine. Eq wqs always a competition for raid mobs, until instancing, and are in now way comparable to fungi king, lol

Your second paragraph is opinion not reality, we actually want people to compete against

Yes thank you Alarti, I had a few things typed out...but I just could not get a comparison of a console offline game to a MMORPG...and if it was just a troll or what?

Look now, we all play EQ for his or her own reasons- EQ made a big change in the life of gamers- ultima, the realm - none of them spurred the "MMO" game into life more so than EQ. Alot of what people love/loved about EQ is that it became its own world- each server their own community and it had life beyond the 'code of the game' - any game that can garner the 'human' aspect and become in any way part of a persons life outside the time that the screen is on and the controller/keyboard is in hand is a succsess.


I just typed and deleted a good 3 paragraphs of me rambleling on...

this is pointless, back to work I go.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your analogy never made sense, comparing a single player game to an mmo is just asinine. Eq wqs always a competition for raid mobs, until instancing, and are in now way comparable to fungi king, lol

Your second paragraph is opinion not reality, we actually want people to compete against

I have already explained how splorf's second paragraph is accurate, specifically this quote:

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they want to keep the bar to entry as high as possible

My argument here:

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO claims anyone can walk into VP, but the two guilds who started in VP had:
1) a forced rotation which allowed you to obtain initial pixels without training and/or other nonsense which is legal in VP
2) a chance to hone PVE raid tactics before adding the PVP aspects (not being forced to master both at the same time)
3) a chance to set up CoH/track bots without PVP
4) a chance to explore pathing, pulling, other zone mechanics in a controlled environment (without the PVP)

Basically, VP was a PVE zone between the two guilds, and now TMO wants to claim anyone can enter and compete within it as a PVP zone, without admitting the obvious advantage they have/had.

To directly respond to your quote:

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

we actually want people to compete against

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The barrier for competition is to the point where its high enough that it doesn't look like anyone is going to bother to compete. Do I care that I'm not in VP? Eh, I'd like to see it. Do I think its worth the effort to get into VP? Not in the slightest. Right now, TMO is "the house". The odds are stacked in the house's favor, and anyone playing to beat the house is delusional.

TMO can "want" people to compete all day long, but TMO cannot compel people to compete. If no one wants to step up to the plate, then if TMO truly "wants" people to compete, TMO needs to lower the barrier for entry. I'm not saying TMO should or TMO has to, but I am saying no one wants to play the current odds TMO is offering. It also appears the "Endangered Species" mobs TMO are offering are an attempt to lower the barrier for entry, obviously as long as its not VD attempting to scale that barrier. Again, it is TMO's right to contest mobs and perfectly within TMO's rights to aid Taken on Talendor to combat VD, but it is also VD's right to contest Talendor and any other raid target VD would like to contest (except Ragefire, who VD is under a binding agreement on kill order).

Besides VD, I do not believe another guild has any VP keys (or at least zero Trak kills, so the keys they do have are MQs and/or purchased toons). Assuming it takes 30 keyed players to contend with the PVE and PVP aspects of VP, and that Trak drops 3 keys per death (round number, I honestly think its more like 2.2-2.5) and that Trak spawns every 3 days (which should be accurate on average), then it will take about a month for another guild to be ready to enter VP, and that's if they win every Trak that month (which I am assuming TMO would contest, with great early success according to how TMO fared against TR earlier in the game, making this unrealistic). I'm sure TMO faced a similar timeline against TR, and it looks like you guys came out on top, congratulations! I don't know if I have the heart for that, and it doesn't look like any of the other guilds do either. None of the other guilds on this server deem VP worthy of the effort your guild has put into getting there, so that is why you get VP pixels and the rest of us do not. You've earned it through carpal tunnel, socks, and hotpockets and it is yours to do with as you please. If you want to market your competition, you have to sell it to your audience; its economics, not philosophy.

While I'm at it, let's clear something else up...

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When VP opened there was no agreement between TMO and TR. It was Train-a-palooza '11. It was after both guilds showed they were basically equal, but wasting each others time, that an agreement was temporarily established.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Veeshan's Peak will be released the same night the PvP Server goes live. This will be some time in early November. Keep an eye out for that announcement.

How it will work will be as follows. Any raid guild with sufficient force (Which I guess is only 2 of you right now, but things can always change) will need to be at the entrance to VP at a time and date to be specified. All guilds present will /random and will pick from the 6 mobs in order until all are chosen. They will then have until a second time that will be specified, most likely 24 hours, to kill their chosen mobs before they become free FTE.

Any guild that choses to raid VP on the night of opening will forfeit all other raid mobs for 48 hours. This is to encourage other smaller guilds a chance to experience raid encounters without them being slain minutes after spawning.

That initial rotation lasted for 3 spawn rotations, voluntarily between TR & TMO for rounds 2 & 3, before the chaos you describe broke loose.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your second paragraph is opinion not reality, we actually want people to compete against

No, you want people to beat. Because when you beat another guild to a raid mob you feel good. You are still crowing about kicking IB off the server, and hey, I have to say that wasn't easy. Your dedication to this game inspires equal parts awe and pity in me.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your analogy never made sense, comparing a single player game to an mmo is just asinine. Eq wqs always a competition for raid mobs, until instancing, and are in now way comparable to fungi king, lol

No, it isn't. Somehow all of TMO is under this huge collective delusion that EQ is a competitive game. I suspect this is because you guys are good at this strange, perverted competitive version of EQ that you have created, and we all like things we are good at.

EQ is a cooperative online MMO. Verant envisioned the game as an epic version of Dungeons and Dragons. The point of DnD is to make friends, chat, and adventure together. Not the other guys playing DnD in the room next door. In fact Verant went out of their way to disable PVP, after watching Ultima online.

I keep trying to sledgehammer this idea into your collective brains: 90% of the people on this server are here to play this version of EQ - the epic online DND EQ. Make some friends, chat, adventure in a dungeon, get a few shinies, kill a dragon eventually. Now I'm sure that when you play constantly you'll eventually get bored with this and think its easy. Verant agreed with you, which is why they kept launching expansions every 6 months [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But most of the server is not bored with this because they've never had a chance to do it.

My suggestion: go find a competitive game to play, like basketball.

[fischsemmel]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

90% of the people on this server are here to play this version of EQ - the epic online DND EQ. Make some friends, chat, adventure in a dungeon, get a few shinies, kill a dragon eventually.

Making some friends, chatting, hackin' and slashin' in a dungeon, and eventually getting to kill a dragon (albeit one on an endangered list) is exactly what is going on on the server right now.

So...

?