Wizard dps vs melee in groups?

[inyane]

eh, if we are going to talk utility, i'll take a druid over a wizard any day.

evacs, snare, root, buffs/regen/resists, heals, ds, dots, and nukes that are almost as mana efficient as a wizard.

1615 for 450 wiz 3.6
1024 for 320 dru 3.2

as pointed out, where you really need the wizards is in velious, and lure nukes.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by inyane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as pointed out, where you really need the wizards is in velious, and lure nukes.

Lure nukes will only get you a lower mana-to-dps conversion rate, and you fall even farther behind on the damage over time calculation. If you blow your whole mana bar of 3250 with level 60 Lure of Ice, congratulations, you've just done 8250 hps out of 400,000 on that Velious boss.

[Ikonoclastia]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lure nukes will only get you a lower mana-to-dps conversion rate, and you fall even farther behind on the damage over time calculation. If you blow your whole mana bar of 3250 with level 60 Lure of Ice, congratulations, you've just done 8250 hps out of 400,000 on that Velious boss.

i think its more important how fast the damage was done and at what stage, wizards burning down a boss when he's reaching 30% or less is pretty damn important yeah?

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Ikonoclastia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think its more important how fast the damage was done and at what stage, wizards burning down a boss when he's reaching 30% or less is pretty damn important yeah?

At a certain point, mob regeneration will outdo your raid's dps. Generally the tougher the mob, the more dps is required just to overcome that regeneration. A rogue, or monk, or warrior, or ranger, or heck, even a shaman pet will do more to bring a mob to the point of defeat, than a Wizard. I don't deny there are nasty monsters and gods that do things like rampage or switch AOEs at a certain point, but that is something with certain raids and constant dps is something that is useful for every raid.

[Splorf22]

Right, I know all this. But clearly if you're in it just for the loot, dps isnt really that big of a deal. If you're in it for loot *and* experience, your point is valid. I just felt that your example was a bit of a red herring since if a player is willingly exping off of mobs with 10K hp, they've already make a decision that they won't be getting very fast exp. But I see why someone would still want mediocre exp over terrible exp, and hence would still choose a rogue over a wizard, so what you're saying is fair.

Giegue, my point is that if a group is at, say, the Chardok fort and killing mostly mid 40s mobs, they will never get in trouble, and there will never be a chance for the wizard to show their supposed group-saving skills. On the other hand, if they are at, say, HS south, the mobs will mathematically have too much HP for them to burn down more than one at most, which leaves evac. And yes, evac is nice, but if you had an enchanter instead of a wizard you wouldn't have needed to evac anyway.

Also, its quite possible to get great XP from L50 mobs like HS south or the Chef/Bar area. You just have to have great dps, i.e. lots of rogues and monks and an enchanter with a charmed pet. Have you ever taken a group that parsed 250 dps to these areas?

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, its quite possible to get great XP from L50 mobs like HS south or the Chef/Bar area. You just have to have great dps, i.e. lots of rogues and monks and an enchanter with a charmed pet. Have you ever taken a group that parsed 250 dps to these areas?

And you are never going to reach those kind of dps targets when you are carrying a Wizard.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lure nukes will only get you a lower mana-to-dps conversion rate, and you fall even farther behind on the damage over time calculation. If you blow your whole mana bar of 3250 with level 60 Lure of Ice, congratulations, you've just done 8250 hps out of 400,000 on that Velious boss.

IIRC Wizards get 5:1 unresistable nukes for giants and dragons in Velious. If we give them 50 mana/tick from c2+bardsong+meditation, thats 250 damage/tick, plus the initial 15-20k from burning their manapool. So for a 15 minute fight, thats 150 * 250 + 18,000 / 900 = 62 dps, which feels pretty comparable to what a rogue would do, and they don't need healers either if they can nuke in between aoes.

And in Kunark of course, wizards blow everyone else away.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IIRC Wizards get 5:1 unresistable nukes for giants and dragons in Velious. If we give them 50 mana/tick from c2+bardsong+meditation, thats 250 damage/tick, plus the initial 15-20k from burning their manapool. So for a 15 minute fight, thats 150 * 250 + 18,000 / 900 = 62 dps, which feels pretty comparable to what a rogue would do, and they don't need healers either if they can nuke in between aoes.

And in Kunark of course, wizards blow everyone else away.

Sorry Splorf but you're assuming things under absolutely perfect conditions that just don't exist. Just for starters, those uber nuke spells are 450 mana per 2000 damage which is not 5:1. Furthermore, those nukes take 6 seconds to cast, preventing meditation during those cast times.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And in Kunark of course, wizards blow everyone else away.

Up till Velious, I agree that Wizards are extremely powerful in raids.

[fischsemmel]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Wizards do] 150 * 250 + 18,000 / 900 [dps.]

Sure would be nice if wizards actually did 37,520 dps.

[Grozmok]

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure would be nice if wizards actually did 37,520 dps.

Raid mobs would die in seconds.

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