Wizard dps vs melee in groups?

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reality check: no, they don't. A L60 wizard has 3000 mana and can do perhaps 12k damage in full burn mode. A L50 mob has 10k hp. If you pull 4 krup shamans, the wizard is not going to blast them all (or even two of them) away, or kite them with aoe snare. Is the wizard useless in such a situation? Of course not. But if you replace the wizard with a good enchanter, that pull is suddenly not only no problem, but good xp.

The simple fact is that I have no idea why there is an advertisement for a new PVP server on a thread about why wizards are . . . underpowered . . . in XP groups.

A typical exp mob at higher levels has much less than 10k hp (mobs in HS north/west wings have like 4-5k hp, mobs in chardok have about 6k I think, mobs in seb/KC are about the same I believe).

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A typical exp mob at higher levels has much less than 10k hp (mobs in HS north/west wings have like 4-5k hp, mobs in chardok have about 6k I think, mobs in seb/KC are about the same I believe).

I would say that 10k hp at 50th level is quite accurate.

[Psionide]

Gyno if rogean was going to bring the server down when your advertising he is, he would change it just to make you look like the fucktard you are.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would say that 10k hp at 50th level is quite accurate.

Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. I've tested hp totals for typical exp mobs in different high-end zones (mostly to see what kinds of ae groups would work). You should never be exping off mobs that have 10k hp when most blue mobs have half that much.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. I've tested hp totals for typical exp mobs in different high-end zones (mostly to see what kinds of ae groups would work). You should never be exping off mobs that have 10k hp when most blue mobs have half that much.

Giegue, you making bad assumptions.

Obviously you can get to L60 without ever fighting a L50 mob. But you are losing out on most of the best loot in the game: HS South and the Chef/Crypt/Shroom areas of Sebilis all have L50 trash mobs. And the XP is actually quite good if you have good dps (250+ = kills every 40 seconds). This is not hard if you form a solid group (warrior 60/rogue 90/chain pulling monk 40/enchanter 100/shaman 0/ cleric 0 = 290). Of course you won't get there with (paladin 30/mage 60/wizard 20/druid 20/bard 30/cleric 0 = 140).

These loot-ridden L50 mobs have 10k hp. Go parse any mob that hits for 140 if you don't believe me. This is precisely the reason that they are harder. 4 low 40s lava duct crawlers will be blue at 60 but they aren't going to wipe any high 50s group, because with their 4-5k hp they'll die fast. It's precisely the L50 mobs with their higher resists, HP, damage, etc. that are actually dangerous.

Let me put the question to you then: what is your definition of a scenario of "the shit hits the fan" for a high 50s group? This is the scenario when all the wizards have been talking about how they kick ass.

[Splorf22]

BTW I would like to add to this that I have no problem grouping with a wizard if he is funny and enjoyable. I'm just saying reality is EQ is a horribly unbalanced game.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true. I've tested hp totals for typical exp mobs in different high-end zones (mostly to see what kinds of ae groups would work). You should never be exping off mobs that have 10k hp when most blue mobs have half that much.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"The data only includes the original EQ and the first expansion Ruins of Kunark so I was not able to get a sample of level 70 mobs."

Oh hey, I was a little off, looks like the average hps of a level 50 mob is more like 12,000. Thanks again.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"The data only includes the original EQ and the first expansion Ruins of Kunark so I was not able to get a sample of level 70 mobs."

Oh hey, I was a little off, looks like the average hps of a level 50 mob is more like 12,000. Thanks again.

I figured we were talking about exp groups, which would make your graph irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the average level 50 mob has a certain amount of hp, because exping off of mobs with that amount of hp is inefficient. Are you denying that there are blue mobs (all the way to 60) with less than half that amount of hp?

Originally Posted by Splorf

Giegue, you making bad assumptions.

Obviously you can get to L60 without ever fighting a L50 mob. But you are losing out on most of the best loot in the game: HS South and the Chef/Crypt/Shroom areas of Sebilis all have L50 trash mobs. And the XP is actually quite good if you have good dps (250+ = kills every 40 seconds). This is not hard if you form a solid group (warrior 60/rogue 90/chain pulling monk 40/enchanter 100/shaman 0/ cleric 0 = 290). Of course you won't get there with (paladin 30/mage 60/wizard 20/druid 20/bard 30/cleric 0 = 140).

These loot-ridden L50 mobs have 10k hp. Go parse any mob that hits for 140 if you don't believe me. This is precisely the reason that they are harder. 4 low 40s lava duct crawlers will be blue at 60 but they aren't going to wipe any high 50s group, because with their 4-5k hp they'll die fast. It's precisely the L50 mobs with their higher resists, HP, damage, etc. that are actually dangerous.

Right, I know all this. But clearly if you're in it just for the loot, dps isnt really that big of a deal. If you're in it for loot *and* experience, your point is valid. I just felt that your example was a bit of a red herring since if a player is willingly exping off of mobs with 10K hp, they've already make a decision that they won't be getting very fast exp. But I see why someone would still want mediocre exp over terrible exp, and hence would still choose a rogue over a wizard, so what you're saying is fair.