MOTD: Consider rolling red

[kazroth]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ creates gang warfare.

MAN! That's what was epic about PvP back in WoW Vanilla! Open world PvP!! Sometimes we'd fight for hours on an open plain out in Hammerfall or something, constantly jumping back into the fray after a ghost run. Eventually someone would be pushed off the field.

I remember piling our guild into that barn just outside Darkshire and killing everything that moved, until the Alliance got wind of it and slowly started to call in reinforcements.

You don't get that anymore... you get the click on queue button, then the pop, then the grind for the pixels.

I don't know, man. To me, it's not EQ itself that fucks up PvP, it's the community. You can either be good sports about it, or just degenerate into 'gang warfare' as you call it.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by kazroth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

MAN! That's what was epic about PvP back in WoW Vanilla! Open world PvP!! Sometimes we'd fight for hours on an open plain out in Hammerfall or something, constantly jumping back into the fray after a ghost run. Eventually someone would be pushed off the field.

I remember piling our guild into that barn just outside Darkshire and killing everything that moved, until the Alliance got wind of it and slowly started to call in reinforcements.

You don't get that anymore... you get the click on queue button, then the pop, then the grind for the pixels.

I don't know, man. To me, it's not EQ itself that fucks up PvP, it's the community. You can either be good sports about it, or just degenerate into 'gang warfare' as you call it.

Tarren Mill/Southshore (or similar) wasn't gang warfare. It was more akin to trench or pure open warfare - and yes, the Southshore/Tarren Mill battles were truly freaking epic. I really miss those battles.

Gang warfare is a group of 6 max-level people rolling around griefing everyone they find.

[kazroth]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gang warfare is a group of 6 max-level people rolling around griefing everyone they find.

Again, how is this any different from what happens/ed in WoW?

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by kazroth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, how is this any different from what happens/ed in WoW?

This didn't happen even in vanilla - i'd get ganked or corpse camped often even in vanilla, but it was usually individuals or there just happened to be 2 alliance in the same place I was trying to level.

It seems like EQ PvP is just far more geared for this because many classes simply cannot hold their own in pvp - so it creates worse individual ganking and gang warfare ganking.

Maybe that's preferable - I haven't argued that, I just find it more douchey to corpse camp someone just because you and your friend = 2 and he = 1. It was far more frequent to 1v1 in world pvp on WoW *in my experience*.

[kazroth]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This didn't happen even in vanilla - i'd get ganked or corpse camped often even in vanilla, but it was usually individuals or there just happened to be 2 alliance in the same place I was trying to level.

So the same thing happened to you in WoW that happens in EQ, but you enjoyed it more?

I dunno man, I'm not really sure what your argument is here. Getting ganked is getting ganked, no matter the numbers.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by kazroth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the same thing happened to you in WoW that happens in EQ, but you enjoyed it more?

I dunno man, I'm not really sure what your argument is here. Getting ganked is getting ganked, no matter the numbers.

It's entirely an opinion thing - but my argument is that eq pvp is more conducive to creating douchebaggery.

Think of it this way - if you lose a fight in EQ PvP, the time loss is fairly substantial - so you have higher incentive to find protection from ganking, i.e. running with a consistent group or gang warfare. Likewise, you know that ganking or griefing others is a substantial loss for them, and corpse retrieval is equally as difficult, so the incentive is higher for jerks to corpse camp because they know it causes even more "pain" (loosely speaking).

Similarly, the incentive to be prepared for pvp constantly is much higher. You can't just log in and do something, you have to log in and be connected to a guild for your very survival - again, totally an opinion thing, but I find this detrimental in pvp, beneficial in pve, which is why I also agree with the post by envino in the other thread - just not for the pride-fest that pvp always is.

So if you're in the king of the hill guild and someone griefs you even once, you can grief their asses right off the server. You actually have the power to systematically destroy someone else's playtime. So those who actually do not have or choose to ignore the natural "do unto others" mentality tend to rise to the top - those who don't give a crap about anything except winning.

In WoW it was much harder to corpse camp to any real avail, and deaths didn't mean that much. So ganking someone was no big deal, kind of like getting hit by a bicycle as opposed to a truck.

So in one sense, there's less at stake in WoW PvP. You get beaten, no biggie. Doesn't take up too much of your time once you lose and you're back in the action.

It's the same principle behind why hardcore/permadeath is kind of a silly concept for a pvp mmo. Too much at stake.