Trakanon Rotation

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Loly Taa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This VP training shit started BEFORE we were raid suspended and IB left the server. We were in VP one night and a crack team of VD showed up unannounced to attempt to prevent us from killing Silverwing.

FWIW, I agree this was a dick move by Bisch and I spent a lot of time on the VD forums arguing for him not to do it.

But again, where were all these invitations to go play in VP with no trains and FTE a week ago? We did to go VP, and despite being raid banned with no possibility of killing the dragons yourself, you trained the hell out of us. And you enjoyed doing it too: our members got all sorts of tells about how you guys were gonna have fun corpse camping us off the server.

[Silentone]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FWIW, I agree this was a dick move by Bisch and I spent a lot of time on the VD forums arguing for him not to do it.

But again, where were all these invitations to go play in VP with no trains and FTE a week ago? We did to go VP, and despite being raid banned with no possibility of killing the dragons yourself, you trained the hell out of us. And you enjoyed doing it too: our members got all sorts of tells about how you guys were gonna have fun corpse camping us off the server.

well you have to remember you guys created this issue when you made a trak rotation that was clearly unfair. IB/VD raided together on every mob yet when it came to trakanon you wanted 1 TMO 2 IB/VD, and you were trying to do the same thing in VP. Had you guys Merged back then and just admited to being one guild negotiations could have been taken seriously. The fact that VD was not banned with IB was already a crime of its own. Then when IB/VD's lower class decided to enter VP it seemed you were twisting words and rules to take our dragons. Personaly you should have ate the ban with IB, you raid the target together but dont share in its consequences? explain..

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Silentone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well you have to remember you guys created this issue when you made a trak rotation that was clearly unfair. IB/VD raided together on every mob yet when it came to trakanon you wanted 1 TMO 2 IB/VD, and you were trying to do the same thing in VP. Had you guys Merged back then and just admited to being one guild negotiations could have been taken seriously. The fact that VD was not banned with IB was already a crime of its own. Then when IB/VD's lower class decided to enter VP it seemed you were twisting words and rules to take our dragons. Personaly you should have ate the ban with IB, you raid the target together but dont share in its consequences? explain..

Wait, so in your mind VD are assholes for not voluntarily refusing to kill raid mobs despite not being raid suspended? And it never occurred to you that IB got suspended because Perun ninjalooted an epic item, while VD did not get suspended because none of our members ninja looted an epic piece?

Simply put as an actual member of VD I can tell you that IB/VD were never one guild the way you guys are making it out to be. We worked together when we needed each other, did not when we did not, made some friends and had fun but there was definitely some friction too.

[Loly Taa]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait, so in your mind VD are assholes for not voluntarily refusing to kill raid mobs despite not being raid suspended? And it never occurred to you that IB got suspended because Perun ninjalooted an epic item, while VD did not get suspended because none of our members ninja looted an epic piece?

Simply put as an actual member of VD I can tell you that IB/VD were never one guild the way you guys are making it out to be. We worked together when we needed each other, did not when we did not, made some friends and had fun but there was definitely some friction too.

So if your guild has nothing to do with Perun's bullshit why does he help you out in VP?

That's because you're working together, and in the real world we call this conspiracy. Generally speaking, if ninjalooting was a real-world offense and you were working with the person that did it- you would be involved in the conspiracy and would be just as culpable.

This isn't the real world obviously but I think you guys lack a general understanding of the responsibility you take on when you work with someone else. Just because you weren't appropriately punished for being a part of the whole scenario doesn't make you innocent.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Loly Taa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if your guild has nothing to do with Perun's bullshit why does he help you out in VP?

That's because you're working together, and in the real world we call this conspiracy. Generally speaking, if ninjalooting was a real-world offense and you were working with the person that did it- you would be involved in the conspiracy and would be just as culpable.

This isn't the real world obviously but I think you guys lack a general understanding of the responsibility you take on when you work with someone else. Just because you weren't appropriately punished for being a part of the whole scenario doesn't make you innocent.

It wouldn't be so much of a conspiracy as it appears that the act took place in the heat of the moment and conspiracy would require both parties to pre-form an intent and agreement to commit the ninja looting. However, Perun may have gone in there with the intent to do it all along without warning or asking anyone else.

I think accessory is the better term here.

[Estrang]

talk shit about tmo and train them until it's clear you won't be winning anymore raid content?

too little too late imo

[Silentone]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait, so in your mind VD are assholes for not voluntarily refusing to kill raid mobs despite not being raid suspended? And it never occurred to you that IB got suspended because Perun ninjalooted an epic item, while VD did not get suspended because none of our members ninja looted an epic piece?

Simply put as an actual member of VD I can tell you that IB/VD were never one guild the way you guys are making it out to be. We worked together when we needed each other, did not when we did not, made some friends and had fun but there was definitely some friction too.

Spin it however you want you were 1 guild, and you were doing anything to gain an advantage over us, you wanted rotation on trakanon yet alone VD/IB couldnt compete with us. And yes you were raiding together as one, so if someone trained us from IB, ninja looted, KS'd you all should be banned, there is no doubt in my mind that you got away due to technicality. thats like TMO making 3 guild tags and asking to be in a rotation with VD. next trak rotation TMO1, TMO2, TMO3, Vd, TMO4, deal? Oh and they can each individualy train you, ks you, grief you and nothing happens to the rotation with the others. im sure you would be ok with that

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait, so in your mind VD are assholes for not voluntarily refusing to kill raid mobs despite not being raid suspended? And it never occurred to you that IB got suspended because Perun ninjalooted an epic item, while VD did not get suspended because none of our members ninja looted an epic piece?

Simply put as an actual member of VD I can tell you that IB/VD were never one guild the way you guys are making it out to be. We worked together when we needed each other, did not when we did not, made some friends and had fun but there was definitely some friction too.

I think the point is he trying to make is that using a joint raid force means each guild that is jointly raiding together should be held accountable for the actions of the other guild during the raid even if they don't share the same guild tag. Keep mind of the company you keep.

[Metallikus]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the point is he trying to make is that using a joint raid force means each guild that is jointly raiding together should be held accountable for the actions of the other guild during the raid even if they don't share the same guild tag. Keep mind of the company you keep.

That's what I say everytime someone says "Not every member in TMO is a complete utter shitbag, there are a couple of nice people there."

We jointly raided with IB on some targets and divided the loot. We never considered combining guilds because we had such different values. Divinity and Taken and maybe even BDA have raided together before, that does not mean that they should combine guilds. It also means that if some guy in Taken is caught for hacking the server that Divinity isn't guilty and should also be suspended when they had no knowledge of the hacker in the other guild. How can VD be responsible for perun taking it upon himself to hold loot ransom. We did not condone his behavior or make him an officer of our guild.

[Rais]

lol

I'll quit playing if VP goes FTE no trains no other bullshit, Trak goes on a Rotation with 1 hr window between TMO, VD, and a 3rd slot. Once the one hour window opens, its FFA,and if it was that guilds trak they lost out on, they lose out.

Confirmed Bisch will retire if the above or damn near close to those demands are met.