Original style trade skill combines now enforced?

[BuzWeaver]

Originally Posted by Slayde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not being critical either. I was just trying to say that the thought of clicking a mouse, no matter how many times, being physically taxing to the point of hindering or discouraging people from doing tradeskills, is just being lazy. Nobodies finger is going to fall off because they have to click a few more times on the mouse. Thats all im trying to say.

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its awesome when we make things more classic, people complain. You guys should complain if we for example... put Vah Shir in the game.

If you'll notice, the changes we implement are to fit the mission goal of the project. Classic Everquest. Stupid indeed.

Perhaps the idea of functionality is being obscured by nostalgic conceptualization. Personally I can modify my play style, the idea that excessive clicking is somehow attributed to laziness is clearly off the mark and borders on pure cynicism. Repetitive motion is repetitive motion its either static to none static.

I can't speak for others as far as complaints, simply because I appreciate the fact that there isn't a monthly fee and a lot of work went into the concept. I would agree if Vah Shir were in the game it would detract from the original game, however repetitive motion was something that was discussed in the original game.

[stormlord]

I don't have endless amounts of compassion. My hands have never been hurt endlessly clicking, but I do have an aversion to it. I did not like all the clicking in Diablo II. I recall clicking a lot in 1999 when I was fletching. I got pretty good at it though. I'd move the two bags real close to eachother so I could click and move the components fast. Got to have hand eye coordination.

Fact is, endlessly clicking over and over will hurt your fingers and hands and wrists over a lifetime. Office workers know this very well. And preventing those with disabilities from using it's not good style.

The reason I don't like the modern tradeskill GUI is because it shows all of the recipes. I realize people can just look on allah to find recipes, but somehow putting it in the GUI itself feels wrong to me. It would be like putting a quest walk-through in the game or a master guide that shows all of the mobs in a zone and all of the items that drop on them. I mean, geez, if you want a walk-through or cheat guide, go to allah, don't make the game a walk-through. I don't play games to cheat, I play them to explore and discover.

I'm not trying to make people mad here. I don't want to click too much either. If the walk-through nature of live eq wasn't so in-your-face, i would love to scream about its awesomeness and less clicking. Why is it that every answer has to be made easily available, but the stuff that would really reduce the pain (like reduce clicking) but not answer every question is ignored unless it comes along with easy answers?

And keep in mind not everything about live eq is about less clicking. Combat has more clicking in live eq than here. I have less than 10 hotkeys here, and the combat-related ones are attached to keys. My ranger on live has 4 full hotkey bars and i end up clicking a lot of them during combat. I hear EQ2 has a lot more clicking.

When did less pain become interchangeable with easy answers? I know that I like to explore and find answers on my own. I don't want them supplied for me. Are most people risk-averse or hostile towards discovering things on their own? What's so bad about that? What happened to playing the game, not playing a walk-through?

[Omnimorph]

I'd put the tradeskill window in the same line as item links, sure it's not classic, but at the same time it was one of the few improvements that actually made the game better imo.

I can see it from both points of view in that the devs want to create as close to classic as they possibly can, and if you start leaving in bits and pieces from later expansions then what you end up with is neither classic , nor current eq but an idea that is away from what you initially wanted.

There will be those who complain about certain things that others will want left in, in this situation, you can't please all the people all the time, and the fairest way to deal with that would be to just go to the old "this is how it was in classic, this is how it will be"

So whilst i may have said i preferred it the other way, i think in order to preserve integrity it should probably be left as it is now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Omnimorph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd put the tradeskill window in the same line as item links, sure it's not classic, but at the same time it was one of the few improvements that actually made the game better imo.

I can see it from both points of view in that the devs want to create as close to classic as they possibly can, and if you start leaving in bits and pieces from later expansions then what you end up with is neither classic , nor current eq but an idea that is away from what you initially wanted.

There will be those who complain about certain things that others will want left in, in this situation, you can't please all the people all the time, and the fairest way to deal with that would be to just go to the old "this is how it was in classic, this is how it will be"

So whilst i may have said i preferred it the other way, i think in order to preserve integrity it should probably be left as it is now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If players had to build the search database on their own by experimenting I would agree that the tradeskill gui is better. However, automatically giving the player access to the search database without first exploring and experimenting, for me anyway, is just people wanting to cheat.

Just tell me: What's more important to you, being able to search any recipe so that you can train up your tradeskill as fast as possible, or being able to select a known recipe and producing the item without having to drag the components from another bag to the tradeskill container?

I agree with those who just want to be able to reduce the clicking, but not those who want to remove the journey just because they've already done it before and it's not fun anymore.

I don't know about you, but I value people more who read the tradeskill books to find recipes and experiment to find new ones. I think they earned their craft. This is true even for people who have made multiple blacksmithing characters and who might feel that adding the recipes to all of their characters is tremendously tedious. Just remember, it's only tedious because you chose to raise blacksmithing on several characters at once or in succession. You have already eaten up the content in the game, so nothing is going to make it fun again.

[Teiraa]

I think this issue is not just about what we like better ("true classic" vs. "less repetitive"), but a bit more complicated, because it is a change made to the servers after being up half a year. Hence, changing the system will "grandfather" those, who have already maxxed out their tradeskills.

But then, for most tradeskills, the big time sink is to gather the materials (or the plat) to do the combines, and not the crafting process in itself.

Our admins should be aware that any bigger change to the server will make people unhappy. If you make something easier, the older ones will complain; if you make something harder, the youngin's won't be happy.

Trying to make a server "true classic" is fine, but the effect on the community should be taken into account as well.

Personally, I'm have nothing against the old tradeskill system, with all the clickiness, the pre-Kunark hard skill caps at 200 (not sure whether this is implemented even), and so forth.

Wouldn't mind the new interface either. Just hope that our admins try to take "fairness" into account, and don't strive slavishly to be "classic" (which in my opinion they actually don't, so everything is fine). [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Teiraa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think this issue is not just about what we like better ("true classic" vs. "less repetitive"), but a bit more complicated, because it is a change made to the servers after being up half a year. Hence, changing the system will "grandfather" those, who have already maxxed out their tradeskills.

But then, for most tradeskills, the big time sink is to gather the materials (or the plat) to do the combines, and not the crafting process in itself.

Our admins should be aware that any bigger change to the server will make people unhappy. If you make something easier, the older ones will complain; if you make something harder, the youngin's won't be happy.

Trying to make a server "true classic" is fine, but the effect on the community should be taken into account as well.

Personally, I'm have nothing against the old tradeskill system, with all the clickiness, the pre-Kunark hard skill caps at 200 (not sure whether this is implemented even), and so forth.

Wouldn't mind the new interface either. Just hope that our admins try to take "fairness" into account, and don't strive slavishly to be "classic" (which in my opinion they actually don't, so everything is fine). [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree. You assume in your post that making things harder is unacceptable to new people, and making things easy is unacceptable to old players. This assumption is sometimes wrong, and this is where you need some work. Not everyone wants every answer in front of them when they're a new player. That, by definition, is making things easier. So, straight from the start, your assumption clouds your ability to understand what's going on. You might assume it's not easy enough when these people leave. Or perhaps an old player is unhappy with something that was made harder, and leaves. You might misinterpret that as meaning it's not hard enough.

Not everything is black and white. If it was, none of us would be here at project1999. We'd all be playing EQ2 or WOW or something better than this. And there're some people here that're new to eq. This is a virtual certainty. And the population that visits this server might have a character all its own, and perhaps that population is not normal and doesn't follow your assumptions. I make assumption all the time just like you do, but sometimes other people have to point out our assumptions for us because we can't do it ourselves.

Remember, we have corpse returns and hell levels and old models and no pok. Some people believe that's impossible, especially those who play live eq. But, here we are, proving it wrong for the time being.

[Teiraa]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree. You assume in your post that making things harder is unacceptable to new people, and making things easy is unacceptable to old players. This assumption is sometimes wrong, and this is where you need some work.

I didn't say "unacceptable". I said "unhappy", like in "unhappy but still willing to accept".

I agree that my statement is "sometimes wrong", as you say, but I still maintain that it is tendencially true.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Teiraa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say "unacceptable". I said "unhappy", like in "unhappy but still willing to accept".

I agree that my statement is "sometimes wrong", as you say, but I still maintain that it is tendencially true.

And what if the population on this server does not fit the average? Can you rule that out?

I can collect a lot of people that're not 5'8, about the average male height in america. What stops me from making a club for people who're 6'1 and thus nobody fitting the average size male clothes?

Remember, it's an assumption, from the start, that this is even the average, let alone for p1999.

Some people thought project1999 would never happen because old ideas and old styles don't float in the modern world. Here we are, on the project1999 forum. Now prove to me that the old style tradeskill gui can't also float? You can't prove it, you can only turn to your assumptions. People had assumptions about corpse runs, hell levels, old models, downtime, and so on, that led them to believe project1999 can't happen.

That's where I disagree with you. I believe it can and will. Where I agree is that I wish there was less clicking. Read through my previous posts and you can get a picture of my viewpoint.

A picture is a thousand words or more.