Where did EQ Live go wrong?

[Daldaen]

Yes, because planets cannot have moons that orbit them with a feline-humanoid species in them... in a fantasy game?

[webrunner5]

The main problem was they got rid of the need for Porters and Crack dealers. Druids, Wizzys, and Enchanters. Luclin expansion I think killed pretty most all of it. I think Bazaar was both a good and bad thing. Mostly bad.

Then the Merc's got rid of the the need for Healers. So the need for anyone in a group went to poop. So everyone 4 boxed to hell and back. They made a pot for every thing. And started the Marketplace. So now you spend more money buying XP and Haste pots a month then the cost of the game. Pretty smart of Sony!!!

[Noselacri]

The game tried to be too mainstream, but it didn't have a mainstream playerbase. WoW did and succeeded with that model, but it didn't suit Everquest. EQ was about the spirit of the game, the world and the community. It's why people tolerated sitting in the same camp for six hours at a time, day after day. It's why people accepted that some levels could take weeks. It's why it was okay that others could interfere with your ability to raid. Then they took away the reason why these things were acceptable, so they had to change those things as well, and in the end the game just wasn't recognizable.

Instances were good because the game needed it at the time, but it would have been better to keep the game like it was back when instances weren't necessary. I think they started to approach this problem even in late Velious, though - raid gear was too far ahead of tradeable gear, but only a tiny percentage of the population had access to it. There wasn't enough content for the whole server, but it was no longer possible for those with access to it to spread the rewards around.

Suddenly there was only one way to be someone: join a serious raid guild. There used to be that, then trading, and finally being good at playing the game, since gear didn't make quite so much of a difference. As the endgame gear started to become vastly superior and available only to the elite, the majority lost their reason to play the game. Instead, SoE tried to make everyone an elite, but it just made everything feel so underwhelming and pointless. By then, the game had lost the integrity that makes people care about it, so most left.

[lawll]

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ was about the spirit of the game, the world and the community. It's why people tolerated sitting in the same camp for six hours at a time, day after day. It's why people accepted that some levels could take weeks. It's why it was okay that others could interfere with your ability to raid. Then they took away the reason why these things were acceptable, so they had to change those things as well, and in the end the game just wasn't recognizable.

People only stuck with EQ because nothing was remotely close at the time. The mass exodus after wow came out pretty much says thats what the players wanted in a mmo game.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by lawll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People only stuck with EQ because nothing was remotely close at the time. The mass exodus after wow came out pretty much says thats what the players wanted in a mmo game.

Not sure I agree with this entirely. I think WoW released at the best possible time and had some things go it's way to become what it is. Couple of things I think affected it that weren't necessarily because of EQ.

WoW released at a time when people had devoted more time to EQ than most generally any other game they had ever played. At first EQ was new to them, and they played it religiously. Then came along something new. Much like DAoC it took a lot of EQ players initially. The thing WoW had was a niche market. The casual gamer. A lot of people simply did not have the time to devote that EQ requires. So they played WoW because they could accomplish a lot more for their time invested.

And once the ball got rolling so many people started playing WoW that everyone else fell in line and played it because that is where everyone was at. If you can play a game with several of your friends opposed to a game you couldn't your going to choose the game where all your friends are.

There was no doubt WoW had some very intriguing features and things that other MMO's didn't. But it didn't take long for every MMO to copy and paste all the features that people liked. So it wasn't so much the features that kept people playing. It was an easy playing environment, with a vast subscription base, and most of all it didn't require a monster of a computer to run (not that EQ did) but other games released after WoW were graphics intense and had several issues. With WoW you could basically go out and buy a Wal Mart machine and run it fairly well.

I think there was many things that added to WoW's success. I refer too it as "the perfect storm". As a game, the lore isn't all that great, graphics are sub par, and gameplay is average at best. I tried it a couple of different times because all my friends were playing it. But it didn't take me long to get burnt out on it. The recurring theme was people left the game and you knew they were going to be back.

Another variable I think plays into it is the fact that many people started playing WoW because the MMO industry had gotten so big. And there was so many people playing it that for many WoW was their first MMO experience. And we all know how that first experience feels. It's hard to let go. I remember playing Counterstrike and the guys in my clan disappeared to play WoW. A kind of game they had never even tried. They mostly played FPS's It was amazing to me at the people who were actually playing the game.

But as I said once you have 3 or 4 million subs everybody you know is playing it and it's "the place to be"

[kaev]

Originally Posted by lawll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People only stuck with EQ because nothing was remotely close at the time. The mass exodus after wow came out pretty much says thats what the players wanted in a mmo game.

_Some_ people, not all. There's no denying that WoW had (and has) a much broader appeal than EQ, but broad != universal. AFAICT, a fair few of players who abandoned EQ when the game became unrecognizable to them, never played WoW or did not stick with it if they did (the former is my experience.) But it's not correct to generalize that either.

But, as I said in my earlier post, it's the players who really changed the game, Verant/SOE just went along with the crowd. It wasn't Verant/SOE that created thousands and thousands of Gnome Necromancers when some website pronounced that the "best" race/class option. It wasn't Verant/SOE that filled the planes with PUGs full of shit-talking loot whores in the weeks/months leading up to Kunark. Just as it isn't the P99 staff that filled this server with stupid numbers of solo-kiting Bards and ridiculously over-geared Monk twinks.

You want to know where EQ Live went wrong? Look in the mirror.

[raptorak]

I think EQ went wrong when they made the melee classes - they suck balls and melee combat is no fun at all, and the warrior class has to be the most boring implementation of a warrior in any game I have ever played. You only have to play WoW for 5 minutes as a warrior/rogue to see that the melee system is far more dynamic and interesting, and for that WoW killed Everquest.

Want to have fun as a melee you better roll a hybrid - OH WAIT - 40% exp penalty in a game with ridiculously slow levelling.

A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You try to hit a decaying skeleton, but miss!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You try to hit a decaying skeleton, but miss!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You try to hit a decaying skeleton, but miss!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You try to hit a decaying skeleton, but miss!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You slash a decaying skeleton for 1 point of damage!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You are unconscious!
A decaying skeleton hits you for 2 points of damage!
You have been slain by a decaying skeleton!

It is a shame really, because the casting classes in this game are awesome as is the whole world, most of the Classic zones and atmosphere.

[Houdiny]

I guess the biggest difference is play styles. Me and a couple of my buddies love a game that knocks ya down and kicks dirt in your face. We like a challenge. Everything is so much more rewarding. It's hard even getting a group, let alone one in a good place with a drop you might need. But when u get an awesome group you never want to leave.

With WoW it had so many things to aid the casual guy. The auto dungeon finder, the ability to log in with a few minutes to spare and still get something accomplished. Which is the cats meow for casual players. But not everybody likes that.

So I guess I am in the minority. I played WoW to max level early on when the game initially released. I raided a bit and then quit. I went back a couple times starting new characters but it just didn't grab me.

But yes WoW has done many many nice things for the MMO industry. It got a ton of people involved that never would be that's for sure. I think that is more Blizzards marketing scheme then the game though. Not many MMO's are out there and in your face like Blizzards. You go to wal mart there is boxes after boxes, all kinds of gameplay cards so even a kid can play it. They did a great job of making sure their product was in the publics eye. Something a lot of MMO companies don't do. They just offer downloads.

[azeth]

Originally Posted by raptorak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW killed Everquest..

Debatable. WoW was released 11/2004.. Sony had driven EQ into the ground by that point.

Consensus is EQ peaked at Velious, trailed off at SoL, picked up with PoP and the rest is history from 2003 on.

This is ridiculous revisionist history, but if somehow WoW premiered in 2002 or earlier, it wouldn't have been nearly as successful initially. WoW really hit the jackpot with both timing (absorbing jaded ex-EQ players), and recognizing that the masses have interest in gaming for 1-2 hours at a time.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Debatable. WoW was released 11/2004.. Sony had driven EQ into the ground by that point.

Consensus is EQ peaked at Velious, trailed off at SoL, picked up with PoP and the rest is history from 2003 on.

This is ridiculous revisionist history, but if somehow WoW premiered in 2002 or earlier, it wouldn't have been nearly as successful initially. WoW really hit the jackpot with both timing (absorbing jaded ex-EQ players), and recognizing that the masses have interest in gaming for 1-2 hours at a time.

isnt aslso a douche move from wow they send beta test to many of the top eq high ranking guilds . for free.

myself got a beta key for euro servers months ebfore the release.