BIG GUILDS, And Reputations

[Amelinda]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not that anyone cares, but even while Tortue/Bigburnas from TMO was training the shit out of IB and VD last night (can he log in for the next week? just curious if we're walking the walk or just talking the talk here), VD spent four hours trying to get an enchanter quest mob to spawn in Skyfire, and when she finally did spawn... even though it would have been gratifying to kill her out of retaliation before TMO could get their turn-ins done, I watched enchanters from IB, TMO, and VD all work together to keep Felia charmed and hand her off to each other so they could do their epic piece. That made me all warm and fuzzy on the inside.

YAY I'm glad to hear about the enchanter epic mob!!! That makes me super happy to see guilds working together. I wish it would happen more often.

Player punishment (or lack thereof) is a private matter between the staff member and individual player. SO i can't comment on that.

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, not everyone in each of the guilds are douchebags... but JFC... we could certainly use staff's help in taking out the trash and enforcing server rules to give a few people some time outs. Some examples made resulting in a little deterrence would go a long way.

For the record when I have evidence I always provide punishment. You just don't hear about it because player punishment (or lack thereof) is always between the player and the staff member involved and therefore I am unable to comment or share details about it so you don't always hear about it.

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

THE REST OF THE RESPONSIBILITY FALLS ON US, THE PLAYERS: If someone from another guild helps you out, stick up for that guild in your guildchat the next time your guild is about to do something shitty to them.

This is totally true. I support this statement 1000%

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amelinda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the record when I have evidence I always provide punishment. You just don't hear about it because player punishment (or lack thereof) is always between the player and the staff member involved and therefore I am unable to comment or share details about it so you don't always hear about it.

In my opinion, you should go the Strannix route from "Under Siege", the apex of Steven Seagal's movie career:

"Let this be a learning experience, gentleman. If you resist we will kill you and the man next to you. Now move out of here in an orderly fashion."

If you directly see someone break server rules, suspend him and the innocent guildmate next to him. Let peer pressure work the rest of the issues out. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The staff has the ultimate leverage... people's time and effort on this server can be erased forever with a few keystrokes. That should be enough deterrent to keep everyone in line -- but somehow it isn't, which tells me there isn't enough of it going around.

[Uthgaard]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my opinion, you should go the Strannix route from "Under Siege", the apex of Steven Seagal's movie career:

"Let this be a learning experience, gentleman. If you resist we will kill you and the man next to you. Now move out of here in an orderly fashion."

If you directly see someone break server rules, suspend him and the innocent guildmate next to him. Let peer pressure work the rest of the issues out. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The staff has the ultimate leverage... people's time and effort on this server can be erased forever with a few keystrokes. That should be enough deterrent to keep everyone in line -- but somehow it isn't, which tells me there isn't enough of it going around.

It's not that there isn't enough of it around, it's that some players have learned how to manipulate the system, and when punished, will attempt to divide and subvert the staff for their own benefit. This is pretty much SOP at this point since the behavior has been rewarded so many times.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I

If you directly see someone break server rules, suspend him and the innocent guildmate next to him. Let peer pressure work the rest of the issues out. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone from IB/VD on Phinny's hate list from the other night should be suspended. They aren't. Amelinda was even there when it happened. IB/VD showed up late, then tried to declare Phinny was a raid target (lol). Then IB tried to enforce a 15man rule (even tho they wanted it thrown out with the new raid agreement). I laugh at these people (excluding the very few cool cats). I can only imagine the amount of excuses and rule lawyering was done after the fact.

If things don't go their way, they will use every underhanded technique they can to get their way. 90% of IB like to talk big game, but they don't like to play a big game. If you upstage their shit, they will whine, cry, bitch, moan, complain and then, if all else fails, rage on a guide like the little whore they are.


PS. If tortue is training and caught, he should be suspended.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone from IB/VD on Phinny's hate list from the other night should be suspended.

Sure, right after everyone on Inny's hate list from this encounter is suspended:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...1&postcount=88

You got the DT and then no one had Inny aggro. Not you, not your guild. Inny was re-engaged by Perun and because you didn't have a tagger ready after you took the DT, the next TMO to engage was 9 seconds after Perun. This precedence of "the first guild to take the DT does not have FTE because they do not take and hold aggro" was set back here by Rogean himself:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or should we go with banning whichever TMO enchanter mem-blurred Talendor on us at 2%?

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They aren't. Amelinda was even there when it happened. IB/VD showed up late, then tried to declare Phinny was a raid target (lol).

It is. Perhaps you should stop neglecting the rules when it suits you to do so:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14667

Raid System

Players are encouraged to create whatever agreements and rules they wish, however, if there is a dispute, these server rules are the rules which will be binding and enforced by the GMs.

Spawn Variance

A variance of +/- 48 hours is in effect on the following: Lord Nagafen, Lady Vox, Cazic-Thule, Innoruuk.
A variance of +/- 24 hours is in effect on the following: Dracoliche, Maestro of Rancor.
*Phinigel will remain a static 12 hour spawn.

The problem from our perspective is that you are operating by some other set of rules other than the ones currently in effect. Mem-blurring Talendor at 2%? Raid interference. Conveniently declaring Phinny a non-raid mob so you can skirt around the 15-man rule? Rules-lawyering. And we're just supposed to sit there and be a doormat? LOL.

I have no problems with GMs/Guides taking a heavy-handed approach to punishment, for EVERY guild. The more that punishment is doled out, the less acceptable the behavior will become for any guild. Especially if they suspend the violator and the innocent guildmate next to him. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Again, let peer pressure sort that shit out within the suspended player's guild.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure, right after everyone on Inny's hate list from this encounter is suspended:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...1&postcount=88

You got the DT and then no one had Inny aggro. Not you, not your guild. Inny was re-engaged by Perun and because you didn't have a tagger ready after you took the DT, the next TMO to engage was 9 seconds after Perun. This precedence of "the first guild to take the DT does not have FTE because they do not take and hold aggro" was set back here by Rogean himself:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or should we go with banning whichever TMO enchanter mem-blurred Talendor on us at 2%?



It is. Perhaps you should stop neglecting the rules when it suits you to do so:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14667



The problem from our perspective is that you are operating by some other set of rules other than the ones currently in effect. Mem-blurring Talendor at 2%? Raid interference. Conveniently declaring Phinny a non-raid mob so you can skirt around the 15-man rule? Rules-lawyering. And we're just supposed to sit there and be a doormat? LOL.

I have no problems with GMs/Guides taking a heavy-handed approach to punishment, for EVERY guild. The more that punishment is doled out, the less acceptable the behavior will become for any guild. Especially if they suspend the violator and the innocent guildmate next to him. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Again, let peer pressure sort that shit out within the suspended player's guild.

The 15man rule was thrown away with the new raid agreement.

Phinigal has been 3-4manned since prekunark times, hardly a raid target by any means.

Amelinda declared it a camp on the spot, we showed proof that ib/vd showed up late. IB/VD KS'd after and nothing happened.

Any other thing you want to bring up, go ahead, but you can't beat clear cut violation of rules more than what was presented with Phinny.

If what you're saying is that you justify KS'n Phinny due to the other stuff, then i'll so be it. Don't start crying when shit really gets dirty tho.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Amelinda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Player punishment (or lack thereof) is a private matter between the staff member and individual player. SO i can't comment on that.

Also, just a personal opinion, but I have a very strong feeling that this policy sort of contributes to the "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome" environment. If people knew exactly who was suspended/banned and what for, then that sends a clear message to everyone else on the server that a) things are being handled fairly and consistently, and b) they better not fucking do what that guy just did. Plus, knowing who the bad guys are allows the rest of us and their own guildmates to distance themselves from them.

I'm sure there's some downside to making this more public, but ideally it would send a clear enough message that rules-breaking would become very rare out of fear of getting shamed and knowing very clearly where the line in the sand is drawn.

[Amelinda]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, just a personal opinion, but I have a very strong feeling that this policy sort of contributes to the "Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome" environment. If people knew exactly who was suspended/banned and what for, then that sends a clear message to everyone else on the server that a) things are being handled fairly and consistently, and b) they better not fucking do what that guy just did. Plus, knowing who the bad guys are allows the rest of us and their own guildmates to distance themselves from them.

I'm sure there's some downside to making this more public, but ideally it would send a clear enough message that rules-breaking would become very rare out of fear of getting shamed and knowing very clearly where the line in the sand is drawn.

It's not my policy. but there would be many problems with making it more public.

[Barahir]

It isn't the big guilds persay. There are some pretty big douchebags that play on here, and dishonest douchebags. I think some guilds attract those people without a doubt, but they don't all have to belong to the same guilds.