Red99 Stimulus Plan (some constructive feedback)

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Albane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because Original EQ had exploits, you let them happen here?

I didn't say that.

Original EQ did not have 10 year old information on how to use these exploits.

Original eq had worse 'exploits' than anything reported here so far. Transferring no drop items through tradeskill containers and corpses, duping money in befallen, interrupting casting by opening trades.. I could go on for a while.

If you read these forums the first week of launch, you saw the "masterofpve' posting screenshot after screenshot with visible proof of exploits

So to answer your question, I did personally see these exploits as did my friends, in each of these screenshots.

Get those screenshots, point out what you believe to be an exploit. Maybe we haven't seen them, noticed, or used objective reasoning to determine the cause.

that the entire community commented on. Just because I was not in Misty at the time, or sitting in lower guk a week after launch, does not mean these exploits do not count.

Misty? If you're referring to a halfling which was giving a little too much coin reward for a quest in Rivervale, dude lol. It was used for a few hours till I disabled the npc.

Sorry that i wasn't sitting next to Nagafen on the server first kill, but I can clearly see bats and fire pets holding proccing swords without being feared or AEd in all the screenshots.

I am glad that some of these exploits have been patched and more so are still being fixed, but without punishment to the players who took advantage of these exploits without reporting them, is very disheartening to the players who are working through content properly.

The bugs that have been reported and fixed, you like. Me too. The way that works is, people tell us how to reproduce a bug, and we do, then we can see what's wrong with it.

Now maybe someone can report how pets aren't being ae feared? I spent about 30 minutes testing with different pets, moving around to different areas, charming bats. All of these were feared just fine.

So, is this a rumor? Maybe you saw screenshots of fighting nagafen within the 36 second window of his fears?


What I'm saying is, if the biggest exploit used was a halfling giving a little too much coin, which was negligible, we're in good shape. These cases should be looked at individually, instead of assuming and announcing that they are widespread exploits. I believe that has more of a negative impact than you might imagine.

[PhantomRogue]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Misty? If you're referring to a halfling which was giving a little too much coin reward for a quest in Rivervale, dude lol. It was used for a few hours till I disabled the npc.

The bugs that have been reported and fixed, you like. Me too. The way that works is, people tell us how to reproduce a bug, and we do, then we can see what's wrong with it.

Now maybe someone can report how pets aren't being ae feared? I spent about 30 minutes testing with different pets, moving around to different areas, charming bats. All of these were feared just fine.

What I'm saying is, if the biggest exploit used was a halfling giving a little too much coin, which was negligible, we're in good shape. These cases should be looked at individually, instead of assuming and announcing that they are widespread exploits. I believe that has more of a negative impact than you might imagine.

In that few hours people had gotten full banded mail, Spears/Scimitars from Venors. AND had hundreds to spare. If thats not comparable to duping money in Befallen then I dont know what is.

Bump pets on the Z axis. Should see some 'weird' stuff then. This bug existed for a long time if I remember correctly.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by PhantomRogue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In that few hours people had gotten full banded mail, Spears/Scimitars from Venors. AND had hundreds to spare. If thats not comparable to duping money in Befallen then I dont know what is.

Ok, well it's not. Let me explain it to you. Doing a quest where you have to run between 2 zones, delivering an item *hoping* for a random number generator to give you a high number isn't the same as duplicating money.

IIRC, Befallen example: Take 10gold. Put 10gp into bank. It would become 10pp. That's actually way more than duplicating.

Once again, *hundreds* of platinum? If this the case, we're in good shape in terms of exploits guys.

[PhantomRogue]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, well it's not. Let me explain it to you. Doing a quest where you have to run between 2 zones, delivering an item *hoping* for a random number generator to give you a high number isn't the same as duplicating money.

IIRC, Befallen example: Take 10gold. Put 10gp into bank. It would become 10pp. That's actually way more than duplicating.

Once again, *hundreds* of platinum? If this the case, we're in good shape in terms of exploits guys.

Hundreds of platinum when everyone else had hundreds of copper? Its enough.

AoE Insta click wands able to be be recharged for a tiny amount of money. Exploit. (Well, this is more of a stubborn and arrogant move on some of the Devs part for not fixing this)

Pathing issues that allow you to bug mobs out so they cant get to you... exploit.

An Exploit is anything used by players, to gain unfair advantage not intended by the Designers. Sure they were not on the level of GhostKilling people or Melee Gate or the other MacroQuest exploits, but they were enough of a exploit that gave an unfair advantage to the people who did it.

Just because you think that having 400pp on your level 1 rogue isn't that bad, doesn't mean that its not an exploit. When the bulk of people quit before level 15, those getting gear and making those levels dang near inconsequential is a big deal.

People quit because of the rapid advancement and parity that is already showing 32 DAYS after the server went live. I mean, 32 days after the server goes live and people have killed Naggy 2+ times? Nawt Classic Brah.

So no matter how small you think the benefit was, it is still enough to cause people to quit.

Jesus will reward those who do things the right way. The path of the Righteous is rife with temptation and fear. Jesus will deliver us from the Sins of others.

[nilbog]

Sorry for derailing your thread Searyx, but I had some spare time today and I wanted to respond to 'exploits'. I believe people claiming lots of exploits are happening, when in fact they aren't, is detrimental to pvp population and should be considered part of the stimulus package.

Originally Posted by PhantomRogue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hundreds of platinum when everyone else had hundreds of copper? Its enough.

Yep. We take exploits seriously when they are real. So, once again, if the biggest problem so far is the fastest nerfed halfling, I say enjoy what is working great, and not harp on the small stuff. But if that is all there is, continue on, it will possibly make more players quit who can't think objectively.

AoE Insta click wands able to be be recharged for a tiny amount of money. Exploit. (Well, this is more of a stubborn and arrogant move on some of the Devs part for not fixing this)

Ya, just stubborn and arrogant. Despite the fact recharging is classic, there's a poll up about thoughts on recharging. Go vote if you haven't. I'd hazard to guess if we didn't have recharging to remove, there would be similar arguments about, "this is classic, we should be able to recharge items." That's not a fucking exploit, imo. It's a game feature that you and most people do not agree with, and it is being addressed.

Pathing issues that allow you to bug mobs out so they cant get to you... exploit.

There's a pathing problem in everquest? /sarcasm off. If you know of a specific bug, report it. If it's an exploit, report it through petition/exploit. EQEMU's .path file system is free to use and develop. If this is a problem, everyone in the community can work on .path files.... Please do.

Just because you think that having 400pp on your level 1 rogue isn't that bad, doesn't mean that its not an exploit. When the bulk of people quit before level 15, those getting gear and making those levels dang near inconsequential is a big deal.

It was bad. It was a real 'exploit'. That's why it was removed within hours. I'm saying that stupid halfling isn't the cause of population loss. People exaggerating it might be, though. If this is the only exploit.. if I removed (estimated range here, if a query was done to remove 2pp -100pp from a few people, this would never be mentioned again, and another issue would rise to power as the supreme exploit)

People quit because of the rapid advancement and parity that is already showing 32 DAYS after the server went live. I mean, 32 days after the server goes live and people have killed Naggy 2+ times? Nawt Classic Brah.

That happens regardless. In every mmorpg, there are people who play consistently more than others. Online all day, every day will get you far in EQ. If Nagafen was exploited in some way, I hope it is reported. We are doing our own tests as well.

[PhantomRogue]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry for derailing your thread Searyx, but I had some spare time today and I wanted to respond to 'exploits'. I believe people claiming lots of exploits are happening, when in fact they aren't, is detrimental to pvp population and should be considered part of the stimulus package.


Yep. We take exploits seriously when they are real. So, once again, if the biggest problem so far is the fastest nerfed halfling, I say enjoy what is working great, and not harp on the small stuff. But if that is all there is, continue on, it will possibly make more players quit who can't think objectively.
Ya, just stubborn and arrogant. Despite the fact recharging is classic, there's a poll up about thoughts on recharging. Go vote if you haven't. I'd hazard to guess if we didn't have recharging to remove, there would be similar arguments about, "this is classic, we should be able to recharge items." That's not a fucking exploit, imo. It's a game feature that you and most people do not agree with, and it is being addressed.

There's a pathing problem in everquest? /sarcasm off. If you know of a specific bug, report it. If it's an exploit, report it through petition/exploit. EQEMU's .path file system is free to use and develop. If this is a problem, everyone in the community can work on .path files.... Please do.

It was bad. It was a real 'exploit'. That's why it was removed within hours. I'm saying that stupid halfling isn't the cause of population loss. People exaggerating it might be, though. If this is the only exploit.. if I removed (estimated range here, if a query was done to remove 2pp -100pp from a few people, this would never be mentioned again, and another issue would rise to power as the supreme exploit)
That happens regardless. In every mmorpg, there are people who play consistently more than others. Online all day, every day will get you far in EQ. If Nagafen was exploited in some way, I hope it is reported. We are doing our own tests as well.

Yes, it is Arrogant and Stubborn. Because the majority of the population wanted it GONE. Wanted it out of "classic." If you wanted Classic, why didn't you keep the crazy bugs in? Oh, my bad, it's "Roegan Classic."

You make yourself look dumber when you say, well we didnt fix Issue 1, because "its in Classic", but you fixed Issue 2 because "it was broke in classic." Seriously, either you want it Classic or you want it "Roegan Classic." Make up your minds.

It makes the Dev team look out of sorts and not knowing what the other Dev actually wants. Three people making their own changes and never having a clear view on what should be done.

Who is saying that its solely the halfling quest that caused people to leave? You are focusing on one issue when its the summation of all the exploits that is the cause of the problem. redacted (An exploit is ANY gaming of the system that the Dev's didn't see coming, regardless how small the benefit is, its still exploiting)

I pointed out many issues the server had, all added up to have a very real effect the population evolution. We had 500-600 in first week and now hovering at 300 prime, coincidentally Red is usually around 60-70% of Blue's population.

How about we just look at some other threads, People begging for XP Bonus, People making threads asking if its possible to start a new character, people talking about resists, the RAMPANT trading of Blue to Red and Red to Blue (OBVIOUSLY NOT CLASSIC), and stop arguing about the exploits that already occured that obviously isnt going to be looked at. And lets figure out how to keep what people we have here, staying here.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by PhantomRogue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, it is Arrogant and Stubborn. Because the majority of the population wanted it GONE. Wanted it out of "classic." If you wanted Classic, why didn't you keep the crazy bugs in? Oh, my bad, it's "Roegan Classic."

You make yourself look dumber when you say, well we didnt fix Issue 1, because "its in Classic", but you fixed Issue 2 because "it was broke in classic." Seriously, either you want it Classic or you want it "Roegan Classic." Make up your minds.

It makes the Dev team look out of sorts and not knowing what the other Dev actually wants. Three people making their own changes and never having a clear view on what should be done.

Who is saying that its solely the halfling quest that caused people to leave? You are focusing on one issue when its the summation of all the exploits that is the cause of the problem. redacted (An exploit is ANY gaming of the system that the Dev's didn't see coming, regardless how small the benefit is, its still exploiting)

I pointed out many issues the server had, all added up to have a very real effect the population evolution. We had 500-600 in first week and now hovering at 300 prime, coincidentally Red is usually around 60-70% of Blue's population.

How about we just look at some other threads, People begging for XP Bonus, People making threads asking if its possible to start a new character, people talking about resists, the RAMPANT trading of Blue to Red and Red to Blue (OBVIOUSLY NOT CLASSIC), and stop arguing about the exploits that already occured that obviously isnt going to be looked at. And lets figure out how to keep what people we have here, staying here.

Go ahead and put the resurrection bug that let you jump to max level in a matter of a few hours also. If I compiled a list of bugs I could think of that were in Classic that *never* even made it here, you'd seriously reconsider this.

Bugs need to be removed. Stop being a dunce.