Name Change is in Order

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's all subjective.

Welcome to linguistics.

When you ask 10 people what they first think of when they hear the word "Holocaust," you will probably get at least nine responses hinting toward the Judeocide that occurred during WW2.

The members of the guild "Holocaust" don't get to claim the word for their own use. I can't make a guild called "Coon Killers" and claim that my guild is all about killing racoons, or killing country bumpkins. I am a slave to whatever the consensus of the definition of the word is.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Welcome to linguistics.

When you ask 10 people what they first think of when they hear the word "Holocaust," you will probably get at least nine responses hinting toward the Judeocide that occurred during WW2.

The members of the guild "Holocaust" don't get to claim the word for their own use. I can't make a guild called "Coon Killers" and claim that my guild is all about killing racoons, or killing country bumpkins. I am a slave to whatever the consensus of the definition of the word is.

I understand your argument. I just don't agree with it. "The Holocaust" refers to the WW2 atrocity. "Holocaust" does not. "Coon Killers" is clearly a slur. There is no ambiguity in its meaning.

My argument is that the word itself isn't offensive, and the intent when the guild was named was clearly not bigotry.

I offer you your own words in debate - Welcome to linguistics.

In linguistics, meaning is what is expressed by the writer or speaker, and what is conveyed to the reader or listener, provided that they talk about the same thing (law of identity). In other words if the object and the name of the object and the concepts in their head are the same.

This is clearly not the case here.

[pickled_heretic]

Holocaust (capitalized) refers to the Judeocide. No "The" required. Consult a dictionary.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holocaust (capitalized) refers to the Judeocide. No "The" required. Consult a dictionary.

Holocaust is also a noun. Now you're reaching.

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holocaust is also a noun. Now you're reaching.

How am I reaching? Do you think it is inconsequential that you have to literally sift through search results to find a non judeocide-related result when you enter the word 'holocaust' into a search engine?

[pickled_heretic]

Multiple choice question:

When you hear "United States Holocaust Museum" do you think of

1. a museum devoted to the history of religious sacrifices.

2. a museum dedicated to to the history of genocides.

3. a museum dedicated specifically toward the genocide of the Jewish race that occurred in the period of time around and before WW2.

4. language is subjective durr hurrr

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How am I reaching? Do you think it is inconsequential that you have to literally sift through search results to find a non judeocide-related result when you enter the word 'holocaust' into a search engine?

No I don't. I understand. What I'm saying is that the word must be given context, because it does not refer simply to the Judeocide. You're arguing that that's all the word means, and is it's primary definition by consensus. I'm saying that isn't true.

[pickled_heretic]

When someone describes themselves as a "holocaust survivor" do you ask them which holocaust they survived?

[pickled_heretic]

I guess you'd only know for sure if they called themselves "The Holocaust survivor." Right?

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When someone describes themselves as a "holocaust survivor" do you ask them which holocaust they survived?

If they lived during 1914 I would. Or more recently - if they were Rwandan, I certainly would ask them.

That's my point. Let's say another WW2 style holocaust occured. Which would be properly referred to when using the word?

There have been many holocausts throughout history. It's all about context and usage...and we're back to a circular argument.

The guild on P99 wasn't insulting Jews. They were naming a guild to reflect that they would be a force of pure destruction on Red99. (Likely untrue, but another argument).