OCCUPY WALLSTREET!

[vaylorie]

Kraftwerk,
Lots of words... to that I say... If you are a libertarian and find value in the OWS goals and methods, I submit that you are no libertarian.

If you actually are a libertarian, good for you and you should identify more with personal responsibility and accountability. These are not traits of OWS. I would agree with most of your thoughts but in the context of this conversation, I can't honestly view OWS as a means to that end.

[Kraftwerk]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kraftwerk,
Lots of words... to that I say... If you are a libertarian and find value in the OWS goals and methods, I submit that you are no libertarian.

If you actually are a libertarian, good for you and you should identify more with personal responsibility and accountability. These are not traits of OWS. I would agree with most of your thoughts but in the context of this conversation, I can't honestly view OWS as a means to that end.

OWS is against the government bailing out failing banks using taxpayer money. Explain to me how that is not about personal responsibility and accountability?

[vaylorie]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OWS is against the government bailing out failing banks using taxpayer money. Explain to me how that is not about personal responsibility and accountability?

That's true, that is one of their goals. How about a few other goals from at least a few of the groups?
Equal distribution of income, single-payer health care, increased environmental regulation, student loan debt forgiveness, immigration reform including amnesty for illegals, increased spending in public works, one-year+ freeze on forclosures, etc.

The other problem is that the 'goals' aren't universal and are constantly changing. Any movement that includes the support and backing of the groups I quoted above, and at least a few of the groups are pushing for these things... A Libertarian can support?

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by vaylorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's true, that is one of their goals. How about a few other goals from at least a few of the groups?
Equal distribution of income, single-payer health care, increased environmental regulation, student loan debt forgiveness, immigration reform including amnesty for illegals, increased spending in public works, one-year+ freeze on forclosures, etc.

Only the idiots are advocating direct redistribution of income. You keep missing the point of everything: The probability of a person in the top 1% (more appropriately the .1% but who the fuck is going to say WE ARE THE 99.9 PERCENT!) of directly wishing to affect government policy with MONEY instead of voting like everyone else significantly increases. Lobbying, in almost all forms, except that of the maintenance and expansion of socialist constructs such as parks roads and waterways, are problematic to some extent. That does lead to increased environmental regulation, or at least I hope. Frankly I think the system is inefficient but there are some systems that should be in place.

Single-payer health care is not a bad idea but does not necessarily work for such a large country. With that said the treatment costs and subsequent treatment costs are related. I'm bothered by the fact that my insurance kept going up every year just as fast as the costs of treatment but my paycheck sure didn't reflect it. I got a job that paid for health insurance.. a fucking HSA. It's bare bones but it fucking staved off a (relatively cheap, $6k) hospital bill.

Student loan forgiveness is retarded. Frankly I don't agree with this one but the beauty is I don't give a fuck about what the guy next to me is protesting. The actual concept of OWS is economic in justice. People buying votes, lobbying for private interests, insurance premiums going up, etc. I was thinking of going back to college but recent state maneuvers is going to leave tuition approximately 30% higher even for state universities next year. I don't blame the need for catchup as those schools have been failing but the previous generation has always said, "oh just get a degree in anything it'll mean the world." This indoctrination has completely fucked up the expectations of current young adults. I think the morons that take on loads of debt to get a degree in African ornithology are retarded but there are people who have followed the rules, jumped through hoops, completed a fuckton of ground work, and end up unemployed 5-10 years down the road because the game changed.

Amnesty for illegals? fuck that. Considering a presidential candidate already passed resolutions for that in his home state. I think there needs to be a little bit more reservation and follow a slightly more nationalist path when it comes to immigration law. This is a new one I haven't heard, at least at the NC occupations.

Increased spending on public works? Probably, as some are absolute shit. It would employ a lot of people and help fix our existing environment, infrastructure, and long-term supplies. With that said I know of a project on a future interstate where they are trying to widen a bridge. In an urban area. It's fucking retarded.

Freezing foreclosures seems to be a hot button issue. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are government backed industries that had to follow government regulations. They collapsed when they realized people were basically going to foreclose anyway. The problem that I have seen has not been the middle class that loses their way-too-expensive homes built during that shit ass fucked up housing bubble, but those of veterans, poor people, and police officers... normal citizens that are not necessarily living above their means or any means but just doing the best they can. I don't give a fuck if the Johnsons down the road can't afford their artificially high priced $600k home, but I do care that the Smiths living in low income housing still can't buck it. It's not about sticking it to the government or banks it's about getting the fucking system right... they aren't helping. There is a difference between an equal society and a healthy society. We're teetering on losing all of that status.