Item recharging is an exploit of game mechanics

[john_savage1982]

I don't understand why this matter is even being discussed. Anybody who thinks that item recharging was intentional in classic and should exist here on P1999 have their heads in the sand. Does nobody realize how many "bugs" and "exploits" have been removed from P1999 in the name of balance? Item recharging is one of these bugs. I think that it is ridiculous to handle items on a case by case basis - or altering entire lines of spells - in order to try and balance the effects of a known exploit. How does that make sense? What sort of mental gymnastics do yall do to convince yourselves that item recharging makes sense?

I'll be the first to admit that some matters have shades of gray but this is so completely black and white that I'm flabbergasted anybody would even have the audacity to argue otherwise.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by john_savage1982 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll be the first to admit that some matters have shades of gray but this is so completely black and white

You're right. It's very black and white. This is a classic server, and item recharging was classic, therefore we have item recharging. There's really no variation available or further explanation required.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a classic server, and item recharging was classic, therefore we have item recharging.

Exactly. See also:

This is a classic server, and class-based XP penalties were classic, therefore we have class-based XP penalties.

This is a classic server, and binding in the firepot room for a short duration was classic, therefore we were able to bind in the firepot room for a short duration.

This is a classic server, and manastones dropped for a period of time in classic, therefore we have X amount of manastones in game.

This is a classic server, and the moss-covered twig dropped for a period of time in classic, therefore we had the 3/10 moss-covered twig drop here for a while, too.

etc
etc
etc

If you make the case for one scenario of "fixed way before its time", then you make the case for everything else being fixed way before its time. Including class-based XP penalties. Alas, not part of the timeline yet.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you make the case for one scenario of "fixed way before its time", then you make the case for everything else being fixed way before its time. Including class-based XP penalties. Alas, not part of the timeline yet.

I'm forgoing being called a troll, being called out with not having raid experience, and made fun of for not leading a guild on P99 (honestly who cares if I've never led a guild on P99) to maintain this point exactly.

Don't open a can of worms just because you disagree with the label.

Unless you can prove it's game-breaking, or as the original post claims (still unsubstantiated) not intended, nothing is going to get changed. The hoop was, in fact, game-breaking, so it was fixed. If you want sweeping changes to item recharging just because it was taken out four years later, then you are inherently supporting many other changes that have no business being on the timeline from launch to Velious.

As far as I can tell, item recharging on live was handled exactly as it is here: if something was broke, it was considered the exception, and that particular function of recharging was fixed. This was the case for the rez staff in particular. Lockets of escaped still worked all the way up until 2003, which is 2 years after our timeline.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would we ask the staff to go out of the way to implement other exploits that existed previously though. I know my share of pathing bugs etc I could test that could go back in. I'm sure a live GM wouldn't approve of recharging items and seeing a raid mob go down to hoops back in the day.

What are these exploits? Give them to the development team so that they can fix them. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are these exploits? Give them to the development team so that they can fix them. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke.

Killing someone right when they log out so it leaves a corpse but they still successfully log out, when they come back in they will have all their gear and a corpse at their feet. That should definitely go back in.

Also, the goos in city of mist should be targettable from the ground, where you can see the sky bridge. I was able to pathing exploit those for a while.

There's a pathing exploit just outside the stone spider room in solb. Its the room with I believe 3 LDC spawns and a water fall of lava behind it that if you make it through goes to the fire giant ledge area. That was a grand pathing exploit.

Hopefully, there's the bards/guards/nobles in Highkeep bug where you can stand behind the fire pot in the room with the gambling looking tables, let's put that back in if it's not here.

There was a bug if you put a back pack in someone's trade window, if you cancelled the trade they would go link dead. Put that one back in there, that was good times esp for the pvp server.

I'll drum up a few others, that should give the people who are proponents of the item recharge issue and keeping lifetaps broken a little bit of time to try and see if they can exploit some of the things listed.

[mokfarg]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Killing someone right when they log out so it leaves a corpse but they still successfully log out, when they come back in they will have all their gear and a corpse at their feet. That should definitely go back in.

Also, the goos in city of mist should be targettable from the ground, where you can see the sky bridge. I was able to pathing exploit those for a while.

There's a pathing exploit just outside the stone spider room in solb. Its the room with I believe 3 LDC spawns and a water fall of lava behind it that if you make it through goes to the fire giant ledge area. That was a grand pathing exploit.

Hopefully, there's the bards/guards/nobles in Highkeep bug where you can stand behind the fire pot in the room with the gambling looking tables, let's put that back in if it's not here.

There was a bug if you put a back pack in someone's trade window, if you cancelled the trade they would go link dead. Put that one back in there, that was good times esp for the pvp server.

I'll drum up a few others, that should give the people who are proponents of the item recharge issue and keeping lifetaps broken a little bit of time to try and see if they can exploit some of the things listed.

So people are duping items like this? I have seen strange behavior of individuals killing one player in Innothule Swamp before. I think they were doing this.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. See also:

This is a classic server, and class-based XP penalties were classic, therefore we have class-based XP penalties.

This is a classic server, and binding in the firepot room for a short duration was classic, therefore we were able to bind in the firepot room for a short duration.

This is a classic server, and manastones dropped for a period of time in classic, therefore we have X amount of manastones in game.

This is a classic server, and the moss-covered twig dropped for a period of time in classic, therefore we had the 3/10 moss-covered twig drop here for a while, too.

etc
etc
etc

If you make the case for one scenario of "fixed way before its time", then you make the case for everything else being fixed way before its time. Including class-based XP penalties. Alas, not part of the timeline yet.

I agree with everything you have said Yendor.

Please be open-minded when reading this response. There is one very large difference between all the things and items you have stated, others have stated, compared to Item recharging.

Using a vendor to recharge a charged item is a Bug. It's a broken Game mechanic.

Just look at how its done: You must have at least two ( 2 ) identical items. You have to make sure the vendor you sell to has room so said Item shows, then you MUST sell the item with full charges first, then sell the item with exhausted charges so they "stack" where the vendor will show two for sale on the same line. ( Items were stacked on vendors solely based on Item # until 2003 ) By being on the same line because they are "identical items" The second item sold is now a "copy" of the first item sold, which will revert the second item to full chargers.

If you do it in reverse, the item with exhausted charges first, then the one with full charges, the item with full charges will be a " copy " of the first item with no charges since they are "stacked" on the same sell line on the vendor, making both items have no charges.

If you want to recharge Lore items you need to have two characters doing this.

All of this is done on a public vendor, which can be bought by other people if you are not careful.

Anyone who says this was a feature put in the game, known and intended to be this way is in denial.

It took until 2003 for VI/Sony to be able to ( or find a way to ) code vendors to differentiate between Identical items with different charges. This is indeed why it's "classic"

The fact that it's classic does not change the fact that its a bug, a broken game mechantic being exploited.

There are plenty of examples of quest bugs giving too much exp, or plat, pathing bugs that caused mobs to not be able to hit you etc, etc that were not changed on Live until PoP, yet they do not exist here because they were unintentional BUGS. Eventually Identified by VI/Sony and removed.

Read this 187 page thread below and learn about all the things you CANNOT do on p99 that are CLASSIC.

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/retar...ts-rumors.html

Arguing that a bug is not " too game breaking " Is simple minded. Its a bug, its not supposed to be, no matter what said bug does.

Leaving this in will eventually lead to people finding other " questionable " things to do with recharged items, which will lead to more Dev time searching for these things and fixing them. Changeing it now will ensure this doesnt happen.

[Hamahakki]

1) Item charging was classic.
2) Item charging was pretty much a mistake by the original devs.
3) Item charging isn't as game-breaking an exploit as Ivandyr's Hoop spam so it won't be changed on p99 even though the hoop was.

That's pretty much it. 1) and 2) aren't up for debate, 3) is a bit more of a gray area but that is how the p99 staff sees it and they have the only opinion which matters.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Hamahakki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) Item charging was classic.
2) Item charging was pretty much a mistake by the original devs.
3) Item charging isn't as game-breaking an exploit as Ivandyr's Hoop spam so it won't be changed on p99 even though the hoop was.

That's pretty much it. 1) and 2) aren't up for debate, 3) is a bit more of a gray area but that is how the p99 staff sees it and they have the only opinion which matters.

2 has never been proven, actually.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2 has never been proven, actually.

You are right, its a broken game mechanic they didnt even know about, and when they found out about it, they couldnt figure out how to fix it for a long time.