Progression? lol

[Zenlina]

The difference here Rogean is that for that specific example they go shit all over another forum instead of just staying on here, which in turn try to make p99 look bad and those modulating it. Thus you gave in and provided data with whatever fraps/evidence you had on hand to show how stupid they were. And i have to say good work with that.

But the problem at hand is lets say they did what zeelot had back on TMO, from past similar raid disruption you basically handed off whatever loot IB/TR had back to TMO/DA. But in this instance you decided to guild raid suspend because was a leadership/officer that did it? There's another way you can look at this, like them training the whole zone to zone in plus VS which in turn disrupted the player base within Karnor's. Besides Amelin and Uthg in the past mentioning not to do anything like this because of the reason i had specified, we have never attempted such a maneuver before and would only think so since TR had gotta away with it over and over again. I mean we could easily go tag trak and yank it to zone in for it to go on a raping spree but we dont.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Zenlina [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference here Rogean is that for that specific example they go shit all over another forum instead of just staying on here, which in turn try to make p99 look bad and those modulating it. Thus you gave in and provided data with whatever fraps/evidence you had on hand to show how stupid they were. And i have to say good work with that.

But the problem at hand is lets say they did what zeelot had back on TMO, from past similar raid disruption you basically handed off whatever loot IB/TR had back to TMO/DA. But in this instance you decided to guild raid suspend because was a leadership/officer that did it? There's another way you can look at this, like them training the whole zone to zone in plus VS which in turn disrupted the player base within Karnor's. Besides Amelin and Uthg in the past mentioning not to do anything like this because of the reason i had specified, we have never attempted such a maneuver before and would only think so since TR had gotta away with it over and over again. I mean we could easily go tag trak and yank it to zone in for it to go on a raping spree but we dont.

Do you think there's a higher chance of the entire zone being trained when you prematurely break mez on all the mobs that are at the zoneline, or if you don't break mez on those mobs? Answer honestly.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you think there's a higher chance of the entire zone being trained when you prematurely break mez on all the mobs that are at the zoneline, or if you don't break mez on those mobs? Answer honestly.

usually TR just zones out after VS dies. We've zoned it once, but every time i've been there after that one time we've killed the train (because if you don't it greatly disrupts the zone).

[Autotune]

Also, on the whole Rogean favoritism thing. I don't think he really favors TR more than anyone else, I think he just doesn't like TMO lol. While you might think it's the same thing, I feel it's not.

I've heard theories and reasons as to why he doesn't, but honestly it doesn't matter. He isn't going anywhere so whatev.


I should be a guide. I'd be awesome at it. I love everyone.

[Autotune]

Oh, and in closing, Red bulls are awesome.

[Noser]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, on the whole Rogean favoritism thing. I don't think he really favors TR more than anyone else, I think he just doesn't like TMO lol. While you might think it's the same thing, I feel it's not.

I've heard theories and reasons as to why he doesn't, but honestly it doesn't matter. He isn't going anywhere so whatev.
.

There's a lot of arbitrary punishment coming from the administration and it seems that its creating backlash and suspicion. Everyone is wondering why in some cases an entire guild is suspended and in other cases it's just one individual or some such.

The problem with any disciplinary action is that it has to be consistent, otherwise people begin to question the motive. The GMs/Devs should either a) work on setting some standards to insure consistency b) make raiding free-for-all if they want to be let off the hook. or c) keep being inconsistent and getting flamed for it.

[LevinJ]

Originally Posted by Noser [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's a lot of arbitrary punishment coming from the administration and it seems that its creating backlash and suspicion. Everyone is wondering why in some cases an entire guild is suspended and in other cases it's just one individual or some such.

The problem with any disciplinary action is that it has to be consistent, otherwise people begin to question the motive. The GMs/Devs should either a) work on setting some standards to insure consistency b) make raiding free-for-all if they want to be let off the hook. or c) keep being inconsistent and getting flamed for it.

Noser, read the chat logs. The punishments with very few exceptions are consistent. The most glaring inconsistency is probably Uthgaard's excessive punishments against choice TR members. Why was TMO raid suspended? Because one of their officers intentionally approached another guild fighting a raid encounter and used an AE spell to break the mezz of every add they had in the entire fight. He then, additionally, used SK aggro spells to taunt the mob off the guild tank and reposition the mob, causing the guild to whipe. As I heard it, his guild then moved in and killed said raid mob while it was at 30% before it had been allowed to reset. I might be mistaken on that last part though (it might have been a different guild). TR collected evidence including fraps, logs, and the TMO officer did not deny it. Another TMO officer's response (see the chat logs) was to openly admit to all of this but claim it is permissible because TMO wasn't satisfied with GM enforcement on other occasions.

This is the same as if someone robbed a bank, shot the teller in the process, then when being arrested said "well you didn't arrest the guy who cut me off the other day on the road even though I called 911 and complained, so I figured it was ok to do this today."

As Rogean said, the vast majority of incidents are simply "too close to call" and GM intervention is impossible for either side. If TR ends up with an edge at all it isn't because of GM favoritism - it is because TR knows how to handle things maturely.

Look at how many threads here are trolling and shouting like a 12 year old on a playground. How many of them are started by TR compared to TMO in the past six months? The leadership of TR is simply more mature and more articulate than TMO. From early on, TR leadership acted like professionals. They collected evidence, made thorough petitions, then waited for results. Sometimes they won, more often than not they lost on the petition front. Most petitions were never responded to. TR for a long time had a strict rule against posting in RnF by any member.

TMO, on the other hand, allowed their members to post here without limitation and to speak as members of the guild. Look at their chat logs - even the officers spoke to Rogean like self-entitled teenagers. TMO QQ'ed their way into infamy. If it seems now that they are the poor mistreated Cinderella of the server, it is because the squeeky wheel gets the grease. They simply cry more and louder.

[quido]

Selective enforcement.

All the data is there - it can be harvested. The "too close too call" scenario should have been a relic of the past a year ago for all but the very occasional set of circumstances. For whatever reason we haven't seen an implementation that can help shed light on these situations. Would it really be that damn hard to have the server keep track of some intermittent locations (during pulls) of certain outdoor dragons? No. Would it really be that difficult to allow guides to see aggro lists and such for certain raid mobs when the encounter doesn't result in a kill? No.

A couple weeks ago I watched as a pair of TR monk alts repeatedly aggroed Vox, ran through a door into our camp, waited a moment, and FDed in an attempt to have her glitch aggro us through the wall. Deny it or whatever, I don't care; it definitely happened, and it definitely happened out of malice. I don't give a fuck about a single encounter. What I care about is that we have absolutely zero recourse against shady behavior given the state of things, usually. If you want to try to enforce a set of ridiculous rules, how about you actually give yourselves and your staff the means by which you and they can effectively and fairly mediate these disputes, because right now it just looks like you're leaving things purposely unclear, purposely vague, to give yourselves wiggle room to do whatever the fuck it is you please for whatever reason.

I know I'm going to get trashed for posting this and I really don't care what you think. If you'd seen the events of recent history unfold as I had, given that you're a reasonable person with a three-digit IQ, you couldn't not agree.

For one reason or another, this is a bunch of fucking bullshit.