Can capitalism exist without govt

[Feachie]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All these arguments showing places where you perceive capitalism as having failed just go to show that a reasonable capitalist society cannot exist without government

this. bolded for emphasis, and underlined what most people miss. capitalism is not the few at the top preying on the ones lower on the food chain. capitalism in it's purest form is fine, but not this incarnation we've been forced upon. only government can keep the little guy from being fucked.

imho capitalism and it's core ideals are generally about "me me me," but there's 7 billion of us on this planet and rising, we need to stop thinking that way or else we're all in deep shit.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Feachie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

only government can keep the little guy from being fucked.

Unfortunately, they stand to lose their free ride and all of their power if they do. It's funny that they leech so much off of the common worker and then have the audacity to call us lazy and helpless without any insight into our lives (looking at you, Herman Cain).

Originally Posted by iamoenaj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am 100% certain there are a range of things you can be doing to better your situation, but they require hard choices, and that is the problem.

I'm sorry, it's not clever insight or hard decisions that make businesses successful. It's the common worker. And they're tricked into labouring selflessly, often in slave-like conditions, with the promise of sharing some of the success.

But that's not capitalism. Capitalism would take all of the profit earned on their backs and pay it off to investors and corporate officers and then cut the common worker when the job is done or when the profits show the smallest sign of sliding.

We need protection from this.

Since the transfer of ideas and services is also considered importing, and imports have tariffs, outsourced hours need to be taxed. The lowest acceptable amount would be to tax companies enough to make salary paid to overseas workers equal to at least minimum wage. That would offer them incentive to pay them more appropriately or to bring the jobs back state side.

[Feachie]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unfortunately, they stand to lose their free ride and all of their power if they do. It's funny that they leech so much off of the common worker and then have the audacity to call us lazy and helpless without any insight into our lives (looking at you, Herman Cain).

our forefathers were prophets in their own right. unfortunately, the majority of americans lack the will, ambition, and are unwilling to accept the possibility of self sacrifice to fight for what is just.

"and i sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."

"the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." thomas jefferson

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry, it's not clever insight or hard decisions that make businesses successful. It's the common worker. And they're tricked into labouring selflessly, often in slave-like conditions, with the promise of sharing some of the success.
.

You obviously never run a business. A great idea that particular business was initially build on, works only for so long. No matter how much you slave drive your workers, if you do not adapt to real time changes in the market, your company will go down in a matter of months. And that need brains, not a whip.

I am not saying, that every corporation doesn't try to turn its workers into slaves (they do), but those corps do not run on slave labor alone

Creator of Facebook (whats his name?) - how many slave-workers he employes and how many millions he made so far? Yet there thousands of companies who employ and slave-drive hundreds of thousands of workers, and yet make only a fraction of his profits.
How about Google? Ebay? Amazon?
All these companies are tiny companies are tiny (worker force wise), compare to say industrial giants, yet they easily match their profits.

So no, squeezing labor force is not everything you need to be successful.

[tmoneynegro]

Originally Posted by Feachie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

only government can keep the little guy from being fucked.

Govt is the one responsible for all the wealth being vacuumed to the top 1%. They're the ones that enact laws to allow people to enter the commodities market and trade metals at 14:1 margin for example. When you leverage up like that, your net worth becomes exponential to people who aren't leveraging.

Originally Posted by Feachie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

imho capitalism and it's core ideals are generally about "me me me," but there's 7 billion of us on this planet and rising, we need to stop thinking that way or else we're all in deep shit.

"Road to hell is paved with good intentions". Ask any woman a question on economics, 99% of the time the answer will be something marxist/socialist because they think it's more "ethical".

[Feachie]

i'd like to change the question slightly;

can democracy exist without capitalism?

discuss.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Feachie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'd like to change the question slightly;

can democracy exist without capitalism?

discuss.

base communism principles are based on democracy - rule of the people and all...
Of course in reality it never happened (yet), but theoretically, sure.

[tmoneynegro]

Originally Posted by Feachie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

can democracy exist without capitalism?

No, non-capitalistic economies requires authoritarian/totalitarian governments with centralized power over everything to operate. If power is centralized and the government is telling you how to live, your votes are obviously meaningless and democracy is impossible since you can't change anything with your vote. Obviously a republic has a similar downfall, the elected representative has to actually operate on the platform he runs on for your vote to matter.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by tmoneynegro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, non-capitalistic economies requires authoritarian/totalitarian governments with centralized power over everything to operate. If power is centralized and the government is telling you how to live, your votes are obviously meaningless and democracy is impossible since you can't change anything with your vote. Obviously a republic has a similar downfall, the elected representative has to actually operate on the platform he runs on for your vote to matter.

no this incorrect.
The market system is not in anyway connected to a specific system of government.
Yes, under communism, the state/government controls the economy, industry, market etc. However, this government can still be democratically elected.
Just because the state owns everything, doesn't make the system automatically authoritarian.
Even under capitalist democracy, not every individual gets to do what he likes, but only what is acceptable by MAJORITY. And if you go against that majority, you are perceived as a criminal.
Communism democracy runs on the same principle.