Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[Billbike]

Originally Posted by Yukahwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Billbike there are more levels to everquest than 50 and 60. At level 15 in unrest on your first character you have nothing and if someone beat you to making a twink he can own that zone 24/7 and there is nothing you can do to him and nothing to drive you to overcome him.

Its stupid. It makes PVP a mostly a nuissance for lvl 1-40. People will still choose a caster if they want to win 1 vs 1 fights what the heck are you talking about? A melee decked out in non planar gear will have basically zero resists, give me a break. That argument just doesn't make sense. If people want to WIN at pvp they wont be a warrior. If they want to group and kick butt and have a good time, they will be. Item loot or not a mage will dominate a warrior.

Let's just stick to the vote. When I played on live, 3 of the 4 pvp servers were no item loot, I wonder why?

So if I (downs pvp virgin) want to play basketball (pvp) in the NBA (r99) and win, I need to be of African decent (caster in this example) because of my genetics (class play mechanics in an environment that makes it easier for certain classes to exploit the rules of the server)?

[Nirgon]

They were no item loot because of 8 or no level range. I bet Tzvz sucked with item loot given the wide spread MQ usage.

[Cfullard]

Originally Posted by Billbike [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's just stick to the vote. When I played on live, 3 of the 4 pvp servers were no item loot, I wonder why?

Originally ALL the PvP servers (Minus Sullon Zek which came out with no item loot from the start) were item loot and coin loot as well as coin loot. There was a large population of players there as well, and the PvP was a fun even if you did lose items. You had no casters, yes, but all in all the server was still a lot of fun and people still fought in gear even if they were casters.

The answer to why the servers were changed to no-item loot was because carebears got tired of farming items when they were ganked so they whined, and whined, and whine some more. Sony listened to the whiners because "Everquest is first and foremost a PvE game" So the loot system to no item loot / coin only and guess what happened? High end PvP mostly stopped and there were a LOT, a LOT more PvP twinks running around from the level ranges of 8-16 (because level 8 is when you could start PvPing players.)

I encourage item loot because yes, you can get ganked but it also forces players to be more situationally aware and observe their surroundings. It also makes players be more cautious with their play and actually think about their odds of survival when they engage. Yes, there was a LOT less warriors, but I honestly can say it didn't kill them off.

And to the trolls. If you can't give a good arguement to support your claim? Shut the hell up.

[greatdane]

Originally Posted by Cfullard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally ALL the PvP servers (Minus Sullon Zek which came out with no item loot from the start) were item loot and coin loot as well as coin loot. There was a large population of players there as well, and the PvP was a fun even if you did lose items. You had no casters, yes, but all in all the server was still a lot of fun and people still fought in gear even if they were casters.

The answer to why the servers were changed to no-item loot was because carebears got tired of farming items when they were ganked so they whined, and whined, and whine some more. Sony listened to the whiners because "Everquest is first and foremost a PvE game" So the loot system to no item loot / coin only and guess what happened? High end PvP mostly stopped and there were a LOT, a LOT more PvP twinks running around from the level ranges of 8-16 (because level 8 is when you could start PvPing players.)

I encourage item loot because yes, you can get ganked but it also forces players to be more situationally aware and observe their surroundings. It also makes players be more cautious with their play and actually think about their odds of survival when they engage. Yes, there was a LOT less warriors, but I honestly can say it didn't kill them off.

And to the trolls. If you can't give a good arguement to support your claim? Shut the hell up.

Or, as it is known in English, the majority were against it and Sony wisely catered to the majority. It shouldn't be too difficult to understand, nor is it a huge mystery why all three itemloot servers got rid of itemloot. PvPing for gear is fun for a little while, but even winning a piece loses its novelty after a while as people figure out that the whole gear aspect of the game - by far the most prominent part of Everquest - is rendered largely pointless when you can and will lose your items on a regular basis. Having to fight without gear on isn't fun, nor is the insane imbalance that occurs when you compare what each class can do without gear. If you choose to wear your gear, you face a number of realities that just kill the game for most: lose link? Lose your best item. Get raped by a ganksquad? Lose your best item. Get one-shot by some overpowered crap? Lose your best item. Your child is about to drink oven cleaner and you have to run and stop him? Lose your best item. We're not in high school anymore, and the prospect of losing what might have taken days or weeks to acquire is just not an appealing feature anymore. Everquest's already sketchy PvP becomes even worse when you can't rely on itemization to do its part to even out what wasn't designed very well. It seems pretty clear that most people are starkly against itemloot, so until a poll proves otherwise, it's hard to take anyone seriously when they claim that itemloot is an important part of EQ PvP. To me, it completely ruins it. The incentive to grief and cheat becomes too big, the inherent imbalances become hugely amplified, and the actual EQ gameplay becomes meaningless. Itemloot would only have a place if this was some insular arena game based wholly on the act of fighting evenly matched fights against other players. Since that's not the case, itemloot can stay the hell away.

[Xareth]

Originally Posted by Billbike [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's just stick to the vote. When I played on live, 3 of the 4 pvp servers were no item loot, I wonder why?

So if I (downs pvp virgin) want to play basketball (pvp) in the NBA (r99) and win, I need to be of African decent (caster in this example) because of my genetics (class play mechanics in an environment that makes it easier for certain classes to exploit the rules of the server)?

Hahahaha I love it

Originally Posted by Yukahwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Xareth - The fact that I could get killed many times and still enjoyed playing PVP really doesn't have any bearing on whether or not there is item loot on the server. I didn't have anything worth looting at all..this is lvl 1 I'm talking about. I was still killed just for the fun of killing me.

Bluebies that can't handle dying this way will certainly not play on R99. For everyone else, I think they are more likely to stick around if they dont get dominated by people 8 levels more powerful then them..and the twinks that do dominate them actually represent an opportunity for a nice piece of droppable gear instead of an unstoppable unpunishable force.

1. Dying sucks. If you have marginalized the importance of winning, then kudos to you.

2. You won't be able to pvp until 6+ I'm assuming, and it's not like it will take an hour to get there.

3. If it's item loot then the +/- 8 (most favorable) range could be reassessed - reason being the same reason why item loot will shrink the population.