Questioning GM Decisions

[Nedala]

Gms can check when and how often he used it. You know, perun is a monk and therefore not out pulling dragons, how is it an advantage for the raid if he knows where the mob is and not telling anyone?

[G13]

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gms can check when and how often he used it. You know, perun is a monk and therefore not out pulling dragons, how is it an advantage for the raid if he knows where the mob is and not telling anyone?

You mean how Perun exploited Vox's pathing to pull her through the cubby/wall to the ZL?

How do you know he wasn't using SEQ to check giant pathing in the lair to accomplish this?

[Hasbinbad]

OK Guys. This thread is not for discussing inter guild politics and such, there are plenty of threads for that, and you always have the option of making another one. Lets try and focus on the end result of all of the torch waving going on in different threads. It's not going to change what the GM's decided, and it's not helping get out awareness as the audience is already hyper-aware of the situation. Let's just cool it off guys.

Whatever happens, please keep this thread on topic.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Not true mitic. The if you can't beat em join em only applies on a level playing field. If someone is deliberately using anything others don't have access to (and this covers more then just 3rd party programs) to give them an unfair advantage then it isn't level. We are talkin deliberate willful knowing acts. There is only one game in town as far as a classic eq emu server and there is no reason multiple guilds can't raid the same targets here. Your argument that obviously we are all impotent, ignorant, and incapable is a joke.

if you cant fight them with your own weapons use theirs then and camp bosses, do rotations 24/7 to keep them on track, use batphones and stop blaming them on the forums. the only thing you get out of this is showing your own incapacity not being able to get things done.

We aren't talking about batphones here, or players who track 24/7. This thread over the uproar isn't about that.

saying that TR is responsible for destroying others guilds or friendships is just another affirmation about your very own weakness.

To use underhanded or unscrupulous tactics in whatever form to maintain an edge is condemnable and if willful, deliberate, and completely knowingly why then yes, I can point the finger of judgement. The people who don't resort to these whatever means necessary tactics are the ones not giving in to weakness. Let me speak hypothetically (or non-hypothetically from some point of view). If guild A knows exactly what mob spawns when and because of that stays on top and uses the fact they get all the raid mobs then you are saying the other guilds must be ineffectual and it affirms their weakness and inability to compete? It isn't weakness to not submit to greed. It is weakness to give in to that greed (not in all cases I grant you) where loot matters more. And preying on that weakness is what happens. And if your ability to use this method relies on you having an unfair advantage we all just suck because we can't. People that are aware or experience unfairness and have chosen to leave are just weak and obviously incompetent mental morons who can't compete because they have the ability to sink to that level. And when some do sink to that level they're bad people who cheat and train and rant and flame.

i got teh solution!

enforce boss rotation on blue99
if you dont like that, join red99

Now that is what I have been saying all along. Enforce rules and play nice on PVE and if you want anything goes where you can you step on your opponent's throat by any means necessary then go PvP. Way it has always been hasn't it?


And Hasbinbad it is on this topic because it directly correlates. It keeps going off topic (or back on topic) because of the fact is is related. You cry to put down the flames and while I am with you in principle I am not with you to censor anything that might cry outrage at what has been going on apparently on this server. Questioning GM decisions should be a dead issue because that was posted by Rogean a while back but if people feel strongly about something they believe to be a moral or ethical issue you are going to hear about it. Forums are a place to do that are they not? And if you value your reputation perhaps you should not be part of the machine that leads people to feel such outrage.

Gms can check when and how often he used it. You know, perun is a monk and therefore not out pulling dragons, how is it an advantage for the raid if he knows where the mob is and not telling anyone?

Nedala I know what you mean but the statement is ignorant. The very notion that obviously monks don't pull is something new to me. Perhaps some don't but to think that because TR doesn't use their monks to pull doesn't mean that obviously this is how it is done. You also state that if he knows where the mob is he doesn't tell anyone. Yeah I am sure no one else gets the information or it isn't used to an advantage. I was thinking about this the other day and going to say this just for argument's sake because obviously I don't know if it actually happened. But I have played this game a long time and I have led and pulled raids at the 'top end' as you are for years earlier in my gaming. Zone a monk into fear and get all the information you want. You don't have to tell anyone where guild A is or what the situation is, especially if you're a raid leader. Just direct your raid to do such and such and none the wiser. Zone into EJ and know the other guild has Sev and where. Know exactly where their force is and exactly where to set up. And that is just if we assume no one got told. Hell (and I am about to speculate here merely because you made the point using seq gives no advantage) you could take it further if you know what loot a mob has you know whether to go for that raid target that day or go for another first. If you know dracoliche has 2 shaman hammers with CT wielding 4 darkwood trunks and Innoruuk has 2 mage staves and a necro book well that could have an advantage too. All that said I find it boggling that you obviously believe monks don't pull dragons duh. Besides the obvious tactical advantages that exist in certain situations and knowing it is more about the player's level of skill and experience then simply the class ( meaning a good paladin could do the job versus a monk that only knows auto attack) to just think that is how all monks play duh baffles me.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets try and focus on the end result of all of the torch waving going on in different threads.

No no no.

The outrage directed at cheaters is not the problem. The cheaters are.

This thread is entirely self-serving. You couldn't care less about this server's health.

[mwatt]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You completely ignored my points in the previous post. Please read it again. 364 accounts are irrelevant to my main point.



You're doing nothing more than ignoring the facts that have been presented to you, and are now engaging in projection and hyperbole. The fact of the matter is the rules have not been enforced equally. All I care about are the rules being enforced equally across the board. Otherwise this is just a corrupt box.



You are not making a logical argument. You are not using any past precedent to back up your opinions with facts and logic. You are offering your opinion. Nothing more. Past events on this server have set the precedent on how development responds to guild leadership CHEATING during competitive raids. You can try and dress up your opinion any way you want. It's irrelavent in the face of the facts.

One guild was raid suspended for their leadership using a 3rd party program

One was not

Those are the facts. Not your opinion. Fact.



This is purely emotional. Not logical. You're ignoring facts and siding with someone because they "gave you your EQ back".

This is my last post in this thread. I'm tired of responding to YOUR hyperbole and emotional arguments, while you simultaneously accuse me falsely of these very things that you are doing.

Your so-called facts are irrelevant in the face of other facts that make yours essentially meaningless. You do not want to hear the important points that I am making. Let me state them again and try to make it as blunt as I can, cause I am done with this.

1) We are all guests here - you have no rights, other than the right to not play.

2) You need to get over the idea that everything needs to be, can be or will be fair in life. Life is fundamentally unfair. Grow up. Get used to it. That doesn't mean you should simply accept every injustice, but you have to use good judgement and know how far you can push things. You are not using good judgement in this case or you don't have it. Let it go, you have already lost and your strident mantra that the devs are unfair is merely serving to stink up the boards at this point.

3) I reject the idea that Rogean and crew have been fundamentally unfair. You present some information you call facts, but I have no way to verify them and no way to know what you left out. The "rebuttal" from Rogean in another thread includes that statement that not all information used to judge a situation will always be publicly known. Since I trust him, I have to believe that either you are holding back info or there is stuff you don't know about the situation you are so incensed about.

4) The people who make the server make the rules. They can decide if and when situations are such that an ammendment of normal punishments should be made. Though it is entirely within their right, they did not even change the rules - they just changed the punishment for the rules. Even our own judicial system gives judges leeway to do this. Them doing so does NOT make this a corrupt box. That is YOUR judgement, YOUR name calling and YOUR problem.

5) I expect a certain degree of autocracy here, because that is exactly what it is, whether you like it of not. Inherent in the idea of autocracy is a degree of unfairness. I like this game implementation so much that I am willing to put up with that. It is the price of admission. So, even if Rogean and company were being repeatedly, unequivically unfair, I would STILL play here unless it reached the point where I just couldn't bear it. In that case, I would leave. I would no be so naive and irritating as to think I could get my way by inciting popular unrest.

[Dirt McGirt]

^^^

lol its a videogame pal

[Skope]

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is my last post in this thread. I'm tired of responding to YOUR hyperbole and emotional arguments, while you simultaneously accuse me falsely of these very things that you are doing.

Your so-called facts are irrelevant in the face of other facts that make yours essentially meaningless. You do not want to hear the important points that I am making. Let me state them again and try to make it as blunt as I can, cause I am done with this.

1) We are all guests here - you have no rights, other than the right to not play.

2) You need to get over the idea that everything needs to be, can be or will be fair in life. Life is fundamentally unfair. Grow up. Get used to it. That doesn't mean you should simply accept every injustice, but you have to use good judgement and know how far you can push things. You are not using good judgement in this case or you don't have it. Let it go, you have already lost and your strident mantra that the devs are unfair is merely serving to stink up the boards at this point.

3) I reject the idea that Rogean and crew have been fundamentally unfair. You present some information you call facts, but I have no way to verify them and no way to know what you left out. The "rebuttal" from Rogean in another thread includes that statement that not all information used to judge a situation will always be publicly known. Since I trust him, I have to believe that either you are holding back info or there is stuff you don't know about the situation you are so incensed about.

4) The people who make the server make the rules. They can decide if and when situations are such that an ammendment of normal punishments should be made. Though it is entirely within their right, they did not even change the rules - they just changed the punishment for the rules. Even our own judicial system gives judges leeway to do this. Them doing so does NOT make this a corrupt box. That is YOUR judgement, YOUR name calling and YOUR problem.

5) I expect a certain degree of autocracy here, because that is exactly what it is, whether you like it of not. Inherent in the idea of autocracy is a degree of unfairness. I like this game implementation so much that I am willing to put up with that. It is the price of admission. So, even if Rogean and company were being repeatedly, unequivically unfair, I would STILL play here unless it reached the point where I just couldn't bear it. In that case, I would leave. I would no be so naive and irritating as to think I could get my way by inciting popular unrest.

I agree with you. This is an autocracy. but as I've stated -- and many many times over -- is that people ARE willing and have already called it quits. The argument that life isn't fair (good one) doesn't mean squat when you fail to realistically apply fairness and equality of judgments and punishments. It's something that you strive for and not something that you neglect because life isn't fair.

Currently the GMs decisions have favored current cheaters over previous cheaters, they've favored certain guilds over others in terms of guild-wide punishments and thus there are some obvious inconsistencies in the way that the rules are applied. This isn't somebody's uninformed opinion either.

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) We are all guests here - you have no rights, other than the right to not play.

I've exercised that right. But if that's the way the server works and expects no input even when the staff makes mistakes then i can promise you it won't last very long.

Nedala, Perun himself explained how it gave you guys an advantage when he explained why/how he was caught on your forums. Koota used SEQ to track a mob that spawned on him, Perun used SEQ to track mobs/players in the zone. Both of them used the program and gained an advantage.

[nalkin]

The gms/devs do listen to what the server thinks, probably not that much, but saying that speaking up will not change anything is wrong. It may not, but there is a chance that it will; it has before. Especially on something that almost the entire server agrees on. Remember global ooc my friends?

WHAT DO WE WANT?????
WHEN DO WE WANT IT??????

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by nalkin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WHAT DO WE WANT?????
WHEN DO WE WANT IT??????

my money.

NAO!