Are you going to quit because of cheaters?

[Taryth]

Originally Posted by xshayla701 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Idk... if they had clued people in and told everyone what they were implementing, I feel like the smart cheaters would have stopped ackin and the dumb ones would have still gotten caught.

Kinda creeps me out that they didn't tell us what was in the updates and that so many of us (including me) blindly downloaded otherwise harmful files. But what the fuck do I know

Nope, you're an idiot for not trusting a stranger over the Internet.

Anyone who defends the stealth inclusion of those files is a serious asskisser, or an absolute moron. Why don't you go ahead and let your government install cameras in your house . . .I mean, if you're not breaking any laws, it doesn't matter, right? Hell, let some random person you don't know do the same thing, it's all good brah!


I quit; gave my gear to random newbs. If the server management is stupid enough to make this kind of move, and then NOT DELIVER after taking all that risk and violating so many peoples' trust, then I'd rather not play here. Especially after seeing the only dev with balls storm off because there wasn't a fair punishment.

[Tiggle]

they hacked into our systems illegally so they could suspend some people on a video game temporarily wuts wrong with that bro

[Feachie]

Originally Posted by Tiggle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they hacked into our systems illegally so they could suspend some people on a video game temporarily wuts wrong with that bro

they used a method which can be used for more than they were using it for. there are safer ways, and i think that's why things are being changed.

[G13]

Originally Posted by Taryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nope, you're an idiot for not trusting a stranger over the Internet.

Anyone who defends the stealth inclusion of those files is a serious asskisser, or an absolute moron. Why don't you go ahead and let your government install cameras in your house . . .I mean, if you're not breaking any laws, it doesn't matter, right? Hell, let some random person you don't know do the same thing, it's all good brah!


I quit; gave my gear to random newbs. If the server management is stupid enough to make this kind of move, and then NOT DELIVER after taking all that risk and violating so many peoples' trust, then I'd rather not play here. Especially after seeing the only dev with balls storm off because there wasn't a fair punishment.

This is a good point

Why go through all the trouble to "Find the cheaters and crack down on them" and then when you see the results, you don't take appropriate action? An officer of a guild was caught cheating. The guild should be disbanded immediately if there is really a no tolerance policy. The officer in question IP banned. Case closed.

DA was suspended from raiding for weeks (TWICE) because of the actions of one of their members on a raid. Tubban was using ShowEQ and happened to be sitting with his guild at the time it was discovered. He wasn't tracking. He wasn't doing anything but sitting idle, but apparently had ShowEQ running. This was enough to suspend DA from raiding for weeks.

Rogean where's the raid ban for TR here? An OFFICER of a raid guild was caught using hacks. Where is the raid ban? Not even a raid suspension? Seriously? Nothing? Why? The community deserves an explanation to what is obviously a double standard.

To me, it sounds like they didn't like what they found because it pointed the finger directly at their pals. In all honesty i'm pissed off they didn't announce this "cheat sniffer" when they implemented it. If the goal was to stop cheating, there could have been many ways to go about it. Inform the server population of what you are doing. Use the process as a deterrent without actually implementing it. Inform the community prior to implementation so the community can decide whether they would continue to play here, without having to have this file installed on their computers. Take polls. Respect the community. I understand this is their sandbox, but when you put a file on my computer to monitor my actions, you're now playing in MY sandbox.

I see a lot of people who are defending their pals saying "If you don't like it, don't play here." A lot of us have played here for almost 2 years. We've put a lot of time and effort into our characters. It takes months to level, and a lot of time and effort to raid. It's an economic principle called the "tradeoff". We are investing our time, which is money. To show our gratitude, we do what the devs have asked of us to do. Click their ads and help them generate revenue.

I've had my run ins with Uthgaard but if there is one thing I can say is he has integrity. Though abrasive at times, he's always been fair. He was looking out for the casual player on P99, not the hardcore raider. He didn't play favorites. His concern was the overall health of the server and i respect that. Him leaving is a huge loss.

[Zereh]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a good point

Why go through all the trouble to "Find the cheaters and crack down on them" and then when you see the results, you don't take appropriate action? An officer of a guild was caught cheating. The guild should be disbanded immediately if there is really a no tolerance policy. The officer in question IP banned. Case closed.

DA was suspended from raiding for weeks (TWICE) because of the actions of one of their members on a raid. Tubban was using ShowEQ and happened to be sitting with his guild at the time it was discovered. He wasn't tracking. He wasn't doing anything but sitting idle, but apparently had ShowEQ running. This was enough to suspend DA from raiding for weeks.

Rogean where's the raid ban for TR here? An OFFICER of a raid guild was caught using hacks. Where is the raid ban? Not even a raid suspension? Seriously? Nothing? Why? The community deserves an explanation to what is obviously a double standard.

To me, it sounds like they didn't like what they found because it pointed the finger directly at their pals. In all honesty i'm pissed off they didn't announce this "cheat sniffer" when they implemented it. If the goal was to stop cheating, there could have been many ways to go about it. Inform the server population of what you are doing. Use the process as a deterrent without actually implementing it. Inform the community prior to implementation so the community can decide whether they would continue to play here, without having to have this file installed on their computers. Take polls. Respect the community. I understand this is their sandbox, but when you put a file on my computer to monitor my actions, you're now playing in MY sandbox.

I see a lot of people who are defending their pals saying "If you don't like it, don't play here." A lot of us have played here for almost 2 years. We've put a lot of time and effort into our characters. It takes months to level, and a lot of time and effort to raid. It's an economic principle called the "tradeoff". We are investing our time, which is money. To show our gratitude, we do what the devs have asked of us to do. Click their ads and help them generate revenue.

I've had my run ins with Uthgaard but if there is one thing I can say is he has integrity. Though abrasive at times, he's always been fair. He was looking out for the casual player on P99, not the hardcore raider. He didn't play favorites. His concern was the overall health of the server and i respect that. Him leaving is a huge loss.

^^ Could not have been said any better.

The server's integrity has always been questionable, at best. A loud and clear statement has been made about how things really work around here and it doesn't bode well for those not in the golden circle. There really isn't any room for doubt now. But I also subscribe to theory that its better to fight the devil you do know than the one you don't!


I'm sorry you were cornered into making the decision to leave, Uthgaard. You will most certainly be missed. <3

[SUSUGAM]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a good point

Why go through all the trouble to "Find the cheaters and crack down on them" and then when you see the results, you don't take appropriate action? An officer of a guild was caught cheating. The guild should be disbanded immediately if there is really a no tolerance policy. The officer in question IP banned. Case closed.

DA was suspended from raiding for weeks (TWICE) because of the actions of one of their members on a raid. Tubban was using ShowEQ and happened to be sitting with his guild at the time it was discovered. He wasn't tracking. He wasn't doing anything but sitting idle, but apparently had ShowEQ running. This was enough to suspend DA from raiding for weeks.

Rogean where's the raid ban for TR here? An OFFICER of a raid guild was caught using hacks. Where is the raid ban? Not even a raid suspension? Seriously? Nothing? Why? The community deserves an explanation to what is obviously a double standard.

To me, it sounds like they didn't like what they found because it pointed the finger directly at their pals. In all honesty i'm pissed off they didn't announce this "cheat sniffer" when they implemented it. If the goal was to stop cheating, there could have been many ways to go about it. Inform the server population of what you are doing. Use the process as a deterrent without actually implementing it. Inform the community prior to implementation so the community can decide whether they would continue to play here, without having to have this file installed on their computers. Take polls. Respect the community. I understand this is their sandbox, but when you put a file on my computer to monitor my actions, you're now playing in MY sandbox.

I see a lot of people who are defending their pals saying "If you don't like it, don't play here." A lot of us have played here for almost 2 years. We've put a lot of time and effort into our characters. It takes months to level, and a lot of time and effort to raid. It's an economic principle called the "tradeoff". We are investing our time, which is money. To show our gratitude, we do what the devs have asked of us to do. Click their ads and help them generate revenue.

I've had my run ins with Uthgaard but if there is one thing I can say is he has integrity. Though abrasive at times, he's always been fair. He was looking out for the casual player on P99, not the hardcore raider. He didn't play favorites. His concern was the overall health of the server and i respect that. Him leaving is a huge loss.

Although I agree with the idea of protecting privacy and that things should have been a little more out in the open, your idea of 'tradeoff' is pretty dumb here. There it no intrinsic value to your character, besides maybe sentimental... (hurry and take a screenshot of your character for safe keeping). You traded nothing. You spent time. Time spent on a meaningless videogame is not money. This was time that was supposed to be aimed at fun. Your character is not owed to you. Time and effort to level? Time and effort to raid? lol. Sounds like you're referring to EQ as a chore to me. Oh wait...

The fact that people cling in such a way to pixels is exactly why games like this can be so unhealthy for people. This isn't a sign of fun, or even a rewarding experience. It's not until you quit that you can even consider any of these things as a reality, though. =/

That said, BURN IT TO THE GROUND

[G13]

Originally Posted by SUSUGAM [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Although I agree with the idea of protecting privacy and that things should have been a little more out in the open, your idea of 'tradeoff' is pretty dumb here. There it no intrinsic value to your character, besides maybe sentimental... (hurry and take a screenshot of your character for safe keeping). You traded nothing. You spent time. Time spent on a meaningless videogame is not money. This was time that was supposed to be aimed at fun. Your character is not owed to you. Time and effort to level? Time and effort to raid? lol. Sounds like you're referring to EQ as a chore to me. Oh wait...

You are incorrect in your assumptions. It's not my character that has intrinsic value. It's my time that has value. You're making an emotional assumption not based in logic. Regardless of what I do with my time, my time has value. One of the most fundamental principle of economics is about tradeoffs. You give something to get something.

Raiding on this server takes a lot of our time that could be productive elsewhere. We choose to spend it here, because we believe it's a worthwhile investment. For whatever reason. That's not what matters. What matters is we as a community choose to spend our time here, rather than somewhere else. That's called a tradeoff.

Uthgaard decided his time was valuable and better spent elsewhere. Players who have never cheated and played by the rules, might decide their time is better spent elsewhere. That if this is just going to a corrupt box, it's not worth the time investment.

The fact that people cling in such a way to pixels is exactly why games like this can be so unhealthy for people. This isn't a sign of fun, or even a rewarding experience. It's not until you quit that you can even consider any of these things as a reality, though. =/

That said, BURN IT TO THE GROUND

You really need to take a step back and stop acting like a child. If you consider them "just pixels" that is your projection of your own insecurity. There are a lot of people who have been playing here for years, and dedicated a lot of their time to work as a team and form friendships within their respective guilds. The most important thing for the developers to do it is create a fair environment for all guilds to compete equally. To create an environment that encourages community. Otherwise what's the point? Why be here? Why have a server if it's just going to be a sandbox for a bunch of corrupt assholes who cheat to win? Might as well just rename it VZTZ and call it day.

By not banning these accounts the developers have made a statement. We don't value our server enough to take appropriate action. We don't value the community. You don't see Rogean taking any polls to see how the community he created cares do you. Why? Because he could give a shit. He's too busy putting the interest of his RL friends ahead of all of us and you know what? That's a bunch of fucking bullshit. Rogean and Nilbog made the server, that's true, but without any of us here to play on it, it's just an empty box.

If they want to make it a haven for cheaters and show favortism by not taking appropriate action against accounts that are freaking hacking than it might as BE a dead box.

[deathgirl]

Originally Posted by SUSUGAM [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This was time that was supposed to be aimed at fun. Your character is not owed to you. Time and effort to level? Time and effort to raid? lol. Sounds like you're referring to EQ as a chore to me. Oh wait...

The fact that people cling in such a way to pixels is exactly why games like this can be so unhealthy for people. This isn't a sign of fun, or even a rewarding experience. It's not until you quit that you can even consider any of these things as a reality, though. =/

That said, BURN IT TO THE GROUND

sez big mister im quitting the game cause my wife lost the mith 2h in an internet d/c [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Bardalicious]

Originally Posted by Taryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyone who defends the stealth inclusion of those files is a serious asskisser, or an absolute moron. Why don't you go ahead and let your government install cameras in your house . . .I mean, if you're not breaking any laws, it doesn't matter, right? Hell, let some random person you don't know do the same thing, it's all good brah!

The stealth inclusion of these files? Rofl. You download the fucking patch files and place them in your directory at your own risk. It's not like they ninja-installed them on you. Why do you do so? I'd assume because you:

A) Want to play here
B) Trust the integrity of the server
C) Trust the motives of those running it

It was pretty common fucking knowledge that they were working on anti-hack detection methods. Want to know what would have happened if they released those files and put a big disclaimer slapped across them saying "HEY GUISE WE CAN SEE WHAT PROGRAMS YOU ARE HOOKING INTO EQGAME.EXE WHEN U RUN THIS" ?? People would have stopped hacking. But not permanently. They would have stopped hacking long enough to find a work-around, then continued to hack again undetected anyways.

Nilbog, Rogean and Co. made a judgement call and I applaud them for it. You trust them enough that you play on their server. You trust them enough to know the IP you are connecting from. You trust them enough to send and receive data packets from the game application and their website. So why would you not trust their motives when it comes to a .dll file meant to out the people hacking that they'd not be able to with standard server-side detection methods?

You're pretty fucking naive or blatantly ignorant to believe they would have done anything else with that .dll, to face SEVERE LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS over a service they provide you ungrateful shits FOR FREE. I find it outrageously convenient that THREE HUNDRED some people / accounts got busted then all of a sudden there is this vocal "uproar". Haters gonna hate I suppose. You get outted or what bro? Suspended / deleveled and this personal crusade is your way to cover for it? Seems logical I suppose.

Let me ask you something, since you're so upset over your privacy. Have you ever played WoW? Any other modern MMOs or online games? Most modern online game clients incorporate anti-hacking methods similar if not identical to what that .dll does that EverQuest simply does not use. Yet millions of people play them anyways without even knowing or giving second thought to it. If there was a nice big EULA specifically telling you that they were looking at the files affecting the game client, would that somehow make you feel better about it? Are you that mentally inept that you need a textual security blanket to wrap yourself up in? They aren't scanning your precious secret data. They are calling the file locations of things that are hooking INTO eqgame.exe - so unless you are hooking things that shouldn't be there in the first place, what's the big fucking deal?

Now, with that said - I do agree it's pretty fucking two-faced to have banned anyone in the past for using these things, then to find out 30% + of your active population was using it, so you slap them on the wrist and carry on business as usual

[Taryth]

Originally Posted by Bardalicious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

blah blah blah

Game company that can be held legally liable for any damages or invasions of privacy != random people on the Internet who've created an emu server. Two completely different things, so stop trying to make that comparison. Did you ever consider other people exploiting the .dll, or the server that stores all the data it collected from everyone? It's not necessarily the server staff that concerns me most.

I didn't say they installed it without my permission, I said "stealth inclusion of these files." Stealth, as in they didn't disclose their full purpose at the time of publishing. Idiot.

And no, I don't want to play here if the server management is going to make this kind of move, and doubly so for not using the data that was collected for any meaningful punishment. If you're fine with having someone violate your trust, regardless of the severity of the risks, that's fine. I don't like people acting on my behalf, or on my property, without my permission and understanding.


And guess what? Now they'll hack again . . .in a week or so! Because they'll find a workaround, just like they would've if the whole situation would've been upfront in the first place. The only difference is a lot less accounts would've gotten wrist-slaps. Oh noes. Back again to not punishing after taking such a stupid, rash action. There really is no defending that.