AC softcap and low level hardcap discussion

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Here is a bit more information on my previous post:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=214

Looking at the data, going from 100 AC to 200 AC reduces damage taken by ~11000 on the Shadowknight.

However, going from 200 AC to 300 AC only reduces damage taken by ~5800 on the Shadowknight.

People may be wondering why going from 200 AC to 300 AC has significantly less benefit.

The reason for this is the AC mitigation formula isn't a linear equation:

1. ~10.5 D20 Damage Roll Average occurs when the Defender's Mitigation is equal to the Attacker's Wrath.

2. ~6.5 D20 Damage Roll Average occurs when the Defender's Mitigation is 2x larger than the Attacker's Wrath.

3. ~4.0 D20 Damage Roll Average occurs when the Defender's Mitigation is 4x larger than the Attacker's Wrath.

In the Shiel Glimmerspindle tests, I only need somewhere between 100 AC and 150 AC to get to the point where her Wrath was equal to my Mitigation. Looking at the data, I think that value is somewhere around ~125 AC. This means that past ~250 worn AC (Mitigation is 2x larger than Wrath), you will see diminishing returns even if your AC softcap is 300 or higher in this specific fight.

On a higher level mob with a larger Wrath value, I would need more AC to get to the point where my Mitigation is equal to the mob's Wrath.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is a bit more information on my previous post:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=214

Looking at the data, going from 100 AC to 200 AC reduces damage taken by ~11000 on the Shadowknight.

However, going from 200 AC to 300 AC only reduces damage taken by ~5800 on the Shadowknight.

People may be wondering why going from 200 AC to 300 AC has significantly less benefit.

The reason for this is the AC mitigation formula isn't a linear equation:

1. ~10.5 D20 Damage Roll Average occurs when the Defender's Mitigation is equal to the Attacker's Wrath.

2. ~6.5 D20 Damage Roll Average occurs when the Defender's Mitigation is 2x larger than the Attacker's Wrath.

3. ~4.0 D20 Damage Roll Average occurs when the Defender's Mitigation is 4x larger than the Attacker's Wrath.

In the Shiel Glimmerspindle tests, I only need somewhere between 100 AC and 150 AC to get to the point where her Wrath was equal to my Mitigation. Looking at the data, I think that value is somewhere around ~125 AC. This means that past ~250 worn AC (Mitigation is 2x larger than Wrath), you will see diminishing returns even if your AC softcap is 300 or higher in this specific fight.

On a higher level mob with a larger Wrath value, I would need more AC to get to the point where my Mitigation is equal to the mob's Wrath.

This is a perfect explanation of "squelch point theory" as I currently understand it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a perfect explanation of "squelch point theory" as I currently understand it.

It is not. Let us take a look at your last post on the "squelch point" theory:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Excellent. Care to make a prediction? My prediction is that all three parses will be similar because at 200+ ac my 60 druid has passed the squelch point of the level 40 Shiel Glimmerspindle. If the no-shield test is worse than the other two, I'll update my understanding to include that shields provide an effect, even when worn in the back slot. If only the shield in secondary is better than the other two, I'll update my understanding to be that shields provide an effect, but only when worn in the secondary slot.

From my understanding, you were trying to claim the "squelch point" is around 200 AC for Shiel Glimmerspindle. You believe that past the "squelch point", you get no noticeable gains:

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, yes, I do mean that. Thanks for clarifying. My prediction is that this mob's squelch point is around 30, such that at any level and any AC above that you will get the same results. I think there's a fixed squelch point, and that this squelch point is lower than the Haynar cap of 55AC at level 55.

This is because there's already so few max hits, only 1.75%. I don't think it'll ever go below 1-2%. There's just no room for improvement left.

Your idea that you will get no noticeable gains past the "squelch point" as you understand it is false based on the data in this thread:

Shadowknight - 1000 Hits from Shiel Glimmerspindle per test, No Shield
=======================================
100 AC Test - 52865 Total Damage Taken
200 AC Test - 41544 Total Damage Taken
300 AC Test - 35754 Total Damage Taken

Shaman - 1000 Hits from Shiel Glimmerspindle per test, No Shield
=======================================
100 AC Test - 53149 Total Damage Taken
200 AC Test - 41805 Total Damage Taken
300 AC Test - 39588 Total Damage Taken

Shadowknight - 1000 Hits from Shiel Glimmerspindle per test, 55 AC Shield
=======================================
351 AC Test - 33211Total Damage Taken

Shaman - 1000 Hits from Shiel Glimmerspindle per test, 23 AC Shield
=======================================
363 AC Test - 37110 Total Damage Taken

As you can see, I am still able to get noticeable damage reduction gains at 300 AC and past 300 AC on both classes. A Plate class like Shadowknight is getting larger gains than a Chain class like Shaman.

From your past posts, it is my understanding you have been trying to suggest that AC Softcaps do not exist, and the reduction in damage taken past a certain point (squelch point) is exclusively due to the non-linear nature of the AC mitigation formula. This is obviously false. Please do not try to claim you were simply suggesting the "squelch point" is the AC value at which the average roll on the D20 is 4 or less. Even in your example with the level 5 mob, A squelch point of 30 wouldn't be realistic for forcing the average roll on the D20 to 4 or less. This is because the Wrath value of a level 5 is something like 45. A Mitigation value of ~30 is not 4x larger than a Wrath value of 45.

In reality the AC mitigation formula has multiple ways to reduce the gains you get from AC:
1. The AC hardcap at low levels ((level * 6) + 25)
2. Class specific AC Softcaps
3. Class specific AC Softcap return values
4. Diminishing returns due to the non-linear nature of the AC Mitigation formula

It would be nice if you explained your "squelch point" theory in detail if you think I misunderstood something in your theory.

If you agree with everything I said regarding the AC mitigation formula, then there is no "squelch point" theory that you made up. We are just experiencing the reality of what Haynar already said exists.