Armor Class and Raid Tanking

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even if the parses weren't perfect leather shouldnt softcap anywhere near 200.

And if every armor type softcaps at 200 on shiel then I guess the main conclusion is shiel is too low level to know if softcap is a fixed value or dynamic depending on mob's atk value.

I have a cleric now so almlso willing fo help on parsing on green.

I reread the thread you're referencing to refresh my memory. Here's the relevant posts:
Druid, 146 worn + 61 spell ac vs 99 worn + 61 spell ac: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...10#post3724910
146 is much more min hits than max hits, 99 is slightly more max hits than min hits

Cleric, 195 worn ac +64 spell ac vs 132 worn ac + 64 spell ac: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...34#post3723434
195 is mostly min hits, 132 is about a 2:1 ratio of min to max hits

Cleric, 163 worn ac + 64 spell ac vs 106 worn ac + 64 spell ac: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...39#post3724039
163 worn ac is mostly min hits, 106 ac is equal numbers of max and min hits

One of the main flaws in those parses is that I'm not calculating specific metrics like avg dmg/hit or % of min/max hit. It's just graphs and qualitative observation. I guess my conclusion is that whether or not druid (as a leather class) has a 100 ac softcap, going from ~100 worn ac to ~150 has a big impact vs a lvl40 mob. And it seems like both druid (leather class) and cleric (plate class) have similar-ish benefits to adding AC in the 100-200 range vs a lvl40 mob.

This implies that either the leather AC softcap is much higher than 100, or that there's not much of a penalty for adding AC above the softcap, or that there isn't a softcap. In other words, I agree with you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This implies that either the leather AC softcap is much higher than 100, or that there's not much of a penalty for adding AC above the softcap, or that there isn't a softcap. In other words, I agree with you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is certainly a softcap based on all evidence and data thus far. There is no evidence of the "squelsh point" theory from what I have seen.

I have been doing some parsing today. I haven't finished yet on all the sets, but here is my 60 SK getting hit by Shiel Glimmerspindle with 300 AC. I realized I was able to just hit 300 AC without a shield using a few alternate pieces in the bank:

=========================
60 SK 1000 hits - 300 AC, No Shield
=========================
DV, Count
19, 453
22, 34
25, 36
28, 23
32, 42
35, 25
38, 26
42, 35
45, 32
48, 28
52, 24
55, 38
58, 27
62, 26
65, 33
68, 24
72, 29
75, 27
78, 32
82, 6

Total Damage = 35754

When we compare this to my Shaman's test:

=================================
60 Shaman 1000 hits - 363 AC Test, No Shield
=================================

DV, Count
19, 381
22, 22
25, 33
28, 28
32, 35
35, 39
38, 27
42, 37
45, 37
48, 38
52, 28
55, 32
58, 23
62, 41
65, 41
68, 41
72, 44
75, 31
78, 33
82, 9

Total Damage = 39236

We can clearly see that the SK takes significantly less damage, due to a higher softcap.

I don't have a level 60 leather class to determine the leather softcap, but as Bcbrown said, his data wasn't great. Ideally some better testing will be done.

Also, we can see that both an SK and a Shaman basically take the same damage at 200 AC. This means neither class has their Softcap below 200 AC, and the mitigation calculation is the same for both classes. To be clear, this is just the AC mitigation calculation. Obviously an SK will take less damage in a similar period of time due to parry, dodge, riposte, and a higher defense skill:

=========================
60 SK 1000 hits - 200 AC, No Shield
=========================
19, 291
22, 40
25, 33
28, 37
32, 37
35, 31
38, 39
42, 30
45, 41
48, 54
52, 53
55, 34
58, 54
62, 35
65, 31
68, 31
72, 41
75, 35
78, 37
82, 16

Total Damage = 41544

=============================
60 Shaman 1000 hits - 200 AC Test, No Shield
=============================

DV, Count
19, 289
22, 41
25, 41
28, 33
32, 32
35, 43
38, 43
42, 38
45, 40
48, 33
52, 38
55, 38
58, 37
62, 39
65, 33
68, 39
72, 41
75, 41
78, 34
82, 27

Total Damage = 41805

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is certainly a softcap based on all evidence and data thus far. There is no evidence of the "squelsh point" theory from what I have seen.

[...]

We can clearly see that the SK takes significantly less damage, due to a higher softcap.

Or they both softcap at ~200 due to shiel's low attack values and the difference between both parses come from the softcapped returns since knight get a 33% diminishing return and shaman only gets 17%.

If this is true, there should be a 16% difference between the 2 parses but since shaman has an extra 63AC this could explain why there is only a 9% difference.

All these parses at different AC values on different mobs using different classes makes it hard to see an actual pattern.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or they both softcap at ~200 due to shiel's low attack values and the difference between both parses come from the softcapped returns since knight get a 33% diminishing return and shaman only gets 17%.

If this is true, there should be a 16% difference between the 2 parses but since shaman has an extra 63AC this could explain why there is only a 9% difference.

All these parses at different AC values on different mobs using different classes makes it hard to see an actual pattern.

All of the recent data I have shown is on the same mob, Shiel Glimmerspindle. I would ignore Bcbrowns old data, as even they admit the data is not very good.

Let me post the data in a simpler way:

363 AC, No Shield, 1000 Hits from Shiel Glimmerspindle
===================
60 Shaman = 39236 Damage Taken

300 AC, No Shield, 1000 Hits from Shiel Glimmerspindle
===================
60 SK = 35754 Damage Taken

200 AC, No Shield, 1000 Hits from Shiel Glimmerspindle
===================
60 SK = 41544 Damage Taken
60 Shaman = 41805 Damage Taken

The Shaman is taking 2569 less damage with 163 AC over 200, no shield.

The SK is taking 5790 less damage with 100 AC over 200, no shield.

The softcap return difference alone cannot account for this discrepancy.

If the softcap was 200 on both classes, the AC values would look like this:

363 - 200 = 163 * 0.17 = 27.71 + 200 = 228 worn AC on the Shaman.
300 - 200 = 100 * 0.33 = 33 + 200 = 233 worn AC on the Shadowknight.

A difference of 5 worn AC after softcap would not reduce the Shadowknight's damage taken by 2x compared to the Shaman.