Stormfeather rules need to change

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DPS race doesn't allow monopolization at all. A single player doesn't have 6 wizards and if a 6 person group wants to try and perma hold a camp (much less lucrative and much harder to maintain and coordinate), anyone else can gather 6 wizards themselves and compete for the camp (SK's would be best here).

If that many people are gathered then it essentially becomes "which group happened to click their nukes the fastest" (similar to FTE but requiring more people and coordination to win), with the added strategy of determining exactly which nuke is best for the target — you want the fastest way to deal majority damage, which fluctuates depending on exactly how many people are there.



Rotations aren't instancing; you're not sitting in a zone alone and it doesn't create more loot in the game world as a whole. The current p99 rules are the most anti-social and pro-cheater thing possible, basically turning camps into instancing for 1 single no-lifer.



I mean exactly that - nobody was ever allowed to have a camp to themselves. The classic play nice policy dictated that people MUST share, using rotations, if anyone else comes and wants to camp the same spawn. And before the play nice policy it was DPS race.

This is the exact wording the devs used when instituting the play nice policy:

Rotations are psuedo instancing.

A simple example is let's say 3 guilds are on rotation for Vulak, and Vulak has his normal 7 day timer:

1. Guild A gets Vulak Week 1
2. Guild B gets Vulak Week 2
3. Guild C gets Vulak week 3
4. Guild A gets Vulak Week 4
5. Guild B gets Vulak Week 5
6. Guild C gets Vulak week 6

If you had guild specific instancing on a 42 day cooldown:

1. Guild A gets Vulak Week 1
2. Guild B gets Vulak Week 1
3. Guild C gets Vulak week 1
4. Guild A gets Vulak Week 6
5. Guild B gets Vulak Week 6
6. Guild C gets Vulak week 6

Each guild would get the same number of uncontested Vulaks per year. Functionally rotations and instancing are the same for the purpose of getting the kills people acrually want. You typically don't see ToV trash or HoT contested enough on P99 for instancing trash mobs to matter in terms of drops.

If you think camps couldn't be monopolized on live in 1999, you are simply wrong. People could box multiple accounts. Does a DPS policy allow competition? Sure. But you are going to lose most of the time against a static group of 12 SK's with HT. If that group wins the camp 90% of the time, most people would consider that monopolization.

Even camps on P99 aren't actually monopolized 24/7 by one person or group forever. Back when guilds were permacamping idols for raids, there were times where people didn't replace one another at a camp, and a different guild or player took over.

If someone never logs out, but is AFK, the P99 PnP allows you to take that camp if they don't engage the mob after a period of time. Most people just aren't willing to out neck beard the existing neckbeards by watching them 24/7 for a mistake.

If you really want to take a camp, get some friends together who can rotate 24/7 on a camp that is being taken. You'll probably find a mistake and exploit it.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Functionally rotations and instancing are the same for the purpose of getting the kills people actually want.

No they aren't. Instancing means everyone does content separately, whenever they want to. Rotations mean you're still in the game world with everyone else (will hear talk, need to react to trains) and you need to kill the spawn exactly when it comes up, and if you fail to get the kill, then the next group available gets their chance.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you think camps couldn't be monopolized on live in 1999, you are simply wrong. People could box multiple accounts. Does a DPS policy allow competition? Sure. But you are going to lose most of the time against a static group of 12 SK's with HT.

Very few people were boxing back then and 12 people joining forces is not at all a monopoly, ANYONE else can gather that same force together if they want to, and there's never going to be the same 12 people continually spending all of their time at a camp like this. It's not lucrative and having more than 6 doesn't help much.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No they aren't. Instancing means everyone does content separately, whenever they want to. Rotations mean you're still in the game world with everyone else (will hear talk, need to react to trains) and you need to kill the spawn exactly when it comes up, and if you fail to get the kill, then the next group available gets their chance.



Very few people were boxing back then and 12 people joining forces is not at all a monopoly, ANYONE else can gather that same force together if they want to, and there's never going to be the same 12 people continually spending all of their time at a camp like this. It's not lucrative and having more than 6 doesn't help much.

My previous post mathematically showed an example where instancing and rotations produce the same number of uncontested Vulak kills per year for all interested guilds. People can just read that and see you are wrong here.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A simple example is let's say 3 guilds are on rotation for Vulak, and Vulak has his normal 7 day timer:

1. Guild A gets Vulak Week 1
2. Guild B gets Vulak Week 2
3. Guild C gets Vulak week 3
4. Guild A gets Vulak Week 4
5. Guild B gets Vulak Week 5
6. Guild C gets Vulak week 6

If you had guild specific instancing on a 42 day cooldown:

1. Guild A gets Vulak Week 1
2. Guild B gets Vulak Week 1
3. Guild C gets Vulak week 1
4. Guild A gets Vulak Week 6
5. Guild B gets Vulak Week 6
6. Guild C gets Vulak week 6

I had 2 accounts in 1999.

If you could get all of the original source code for Everquest from 1999 and run that server in 2026, people would play differently, and the content would be monopolized by neckbeards. I don't know why you keep appealing to how people played in 1999. You cannot force people to play that way anymore. Nor can you wipe their memories.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My previous post mathematically showed an example where instancing and rotations produce the same number of uncontested Vulak kills per year for all interested guilds.

Stop repeating the same wrong nonsense.

Rotations = any failure to kill a target opens the opportunity to another group. It also means that any guild in the zone is impacted by the environmental difference of sharing that space with other people. Instances = no penalty for failure, aside from losing a bit of time needing to rez people and do it again, and it makes zones more predictable and less social.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you could get all of the original source code for Everquest from 1999 and run that server in 2026, people would play differently, and the content would be monopolized by neckbeards.

It would be impossible to monopolize content, especially for a single player. And ofc people play differently, that's irrelevant.

DPS racing inherently means that people need to work together more. Anyone trying to solo monopolize a spawn will lose when a capable duo shows up. 2 people lose to 3 capable people, etc. No matter what, if someone really wants a spawn, they have the ability to gather friends and go fight for it.

The best the neckbeards can do is try to put 6 people at a camp. But that merely gives them an equal chance against another 6 people (who can have minimal playtime, instead of playing all day), and it's not lucrative. When we look at the current state of things, with 6 individuals being able to monopolize 6 camps, if those same people instead would have to work together to monopolize a single camp, it either wouldn't happen or it would mean more camps in the game would be open as a result.

The other nice thing about DPS racing is that it disincentivizes zerg guilds. DPS is capped at 6 people, so a 20 person raid force with 6 Wizards or 6 Rogues (depends on the target which is best) has a pretty good chance of beating an 80 person raid force. The other fun thing: this could create a meta of small raid forces being prevalent, but not actually able to beat some of the targets on their own, because it's assumed another guild will be competing with their own DPS at the same time. Since neither group can kill Vulak or whoever on their own, they can play chicken with each other and see who tries to jump on it first, and just let the people who jumped on it first die.