Dual wield logic

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where are the red heads when you need them? It seems to me the meta was deleveling toons to gain significant advantage in PVP which doesn't jive with this sentiment. Maybe someone in the know can confirm.

Initially your delevelled skill in pvp wouldn’t be subject to cap. This got nerfed on pvp servers so your delevelled skills would be capped at 5 levels above your current level. Afaik on pve servers a delevelled characters skills wouldn’t get clipped at all.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Initially your delevelled skill in pvp wouldn’t be subject to cap. This got nerfed on pvp servers so your delevelled skills would be capped at 5 levels above your current level. Afaik on pve servers a delevelled characters skills wouldn’t get clipped at all.

Yeah it should be easy to test. I'd probably use Meditate as the skill to check. Compare how much mana you get per tick before and after the delevel. The EQEMU code does have checks that look at player level specifically throughout the code. So I am not sure if the check that prevents double attack from triggering on offhand swings is based on player level, skill level, or both.

[Snaggles]

When you delevel does your displayed skill via your paper doll skill menu decrease? I’ve never checked it.

The only time I legitimately deleveled (outside making EE’s at 60) was to make a Nagafen draft with my 54 wiz and then went back to click the 10 or so bodies. It still wasn’t worth it in the end.

IMHO, much of the DW vs 2h debates come down to a couple weapon sets which you can easily test under various circumstances. The toughest and most contested one is how they parse against raid targets due to short and inconsistent fights. I guess you could string together enough Vindi’s to make sense of it or just go with “best single x vs best single y”

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you delevel does your displayed skill via your paper doll skill menu decrease? I’ve never checked it.

The only time I legitimately deleveled (outside making EE’s at 60) was to make a Nagafen draft with my 54 wiz and then went back to click the 10 or so bodies. It still wasn’t worth it in the end.

IMHO, much of the DW vs 2h debates come down to a couple weapon sets which you can easily test under various circumstances. The toughest and most contested one is how they parse against raid targets due to short and inconsistent fights. I guess you could string together enough Vindi’s to make sense of it or just go with “best single x vs best single y”

On high AC targets a lot of your hits will become minimum hits so I guess it is somewhat down to which setup can optimize minimum hit damage?

Kinda like peacebringer vs IFS. IFS has a slightly better ratio and 4 extra damage bonus but peacebringer is 33% faster. In general peacebringer is probably the better weapon until tstaff.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On high AC targets a lot of your hits will become minimum hits so I guess it is somewhat down to which setup can optimize minimum hit damage?

Kinda like peacebringer vs IFS. IFS has a slightly better ratio and 4 extra damage bonus but peacebringer is 33% faster. In general peacebringer is probably the better weapon until tstaff.

The IFS vs. Peacebringer debate is a bit more nuanced, since higher delay weapons like IFS are easier to fistweave with. This obviously assumes you are the type of player that does fistweave. Not everybody likes doing it.

Too lazy to do any data analysis atm, but it's something to keep in mind.TStaff is better than both, the proc is quite nice for a bit of extra damage, and the stun saves you some HP.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The IFS vs. Peacebringer debate is a bit more nuanced, since higher delay weapons like IFS are easier to fistweave with. This obviously assumes you are the type of player that does fistweave. Not everybody likes doing it.

Too lazy to do any data analysis atm, but it's something to keep in mind.TStaff is better than both, the proc is quite nice for a bit of extra damage, and the stun saves you some HP.

Yeah it wasn't a detailed analysis but more an example of things that could possibly be playing out differently than you'd expect on a high AC targets.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On high AC targets a lot of your hits will become minimum hits so I guess it is somewhat down to which setup can optimize minimum hit damage?

Kinda like peacebringer vs IFS. IFS has a slightly better ratio and 4 extra damage bonus but peacebringer is 33% faster. In general peacebringer is probably the better weapon until tstaff.

Yea that’s my running theory on 2h as well. It’s tough to get controlled parses on red cons but my 2h has a higher Vindi parse than my DW weapons with the ranger. With a monk the 1st and 2nd best ratio weapons are 2h so while DW sets are better than other classes, on the basis of raw dps 2h generally is the path.

I liked the PB leveling up with my monk but I only hit 50 before I stopped. The speed feels good and the price can’t be beat. It’s a slightly better ratio at 60 due to the damage bonus.

As to DSM’s point, I personally feel the timing of a 30 delay weapon even hasted is ideal if you get into the click rhythm. Objective disadvantage though for being heavier than the IFS, damage shields, and not delivering those massive ripostes.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The IFS vs. Peacebringer debate is a bit more nuanced, since higher delay weapons like IFS are easier to fistweave with. This obviously assumes you are the type of player that does fistweave. Not everybody likes doing it.

Too lazy to do any data analysis atm, but it's something to keep in mind.TStaff is better than both, the proc is quite nice for a bit of extra damage, and the stun saves you some HP.

I’d be curious if the tstaff is a top 3 monk weapon for soloing due to the proc mitigation. Just a ridiculously good item besides the weight

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’d be curious if the tstaff is a top 3 monk weapon for soloing due to the proc mitigation. Just a ridiculously good item besides the weight

Can't hurt but it is a 6 second stun, you're basically saving ~2 rounds. Every little bit helps but I don't think it makes or breaks anything.

In the common monk weapon parsing thread there's your answer:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=437154

Tstaff wins on damage taken but it has the highest kill speed so you're bound to take less damage if the mob gets less rounds.