Dual wield logic

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For DA not triggering on offhand until 150, I wanted to test that on my 16 rogue that just got DA. I read it a couple times but I can't find anywhere that confirms it. Lately I was leveling 1hs and a had a croaking dirk in OH and I can say OH doesn't fire all that much so maybe it can DA but since DW hardly ever triggers and DA on main hand either so maybe it is possible but a statistically insignificant chance.

Here is a video of my level 25 Warrior fighting corudoth for 35 minutes.

This video is a bit unusual, as I broke my normal rule of being consistent with buffs. I did 3 casts of Cog Boost (40% Haste), as I was mostly checking max hit.

There were 987 main hand swing attempts and 336 offhand swing attempts over 2139 seconds. My haste would be 62% for 1530 seconds (Cog Boost was 8 minutes 30 seconds duration at my level), and 22% for the rest. The average haste assuming a 50/50 split is 62 + 22 = 84 / 2 = 42% haste. Since the haste wasn't a 50/50 split, 1530 / 2139 = 0.715 * 62 = 44% Haste on average.

1. 336 Offhand Crush Attempts [30 Delay / 1.44 Haste = One attack Every 2.08 Seconds]
2. 987 Primary Slash Attempts [40 Delay / 1.44 Haste = One attack Every 2.77 Seconds]
3. Fight was 2139 seconds long

2139 Seconds / 2.08 Seconds = 1028 Offhand Crush Attempts * ((130 Dual Wield Skill Level + 25 Player Level) / 475) = ~335 Predicted Secondary Crush Attempts on average.

2139 Seconds / 2.77 Seconds = 772 Primary Slash Attempts * (1 + ((130 Double Attack Skill + 25 Player Level) / 500)) = ~1011 Predicted Primary Slash Attempts on average.

Both of the predicted numbers above track with my log results. Also looking at my logs, I didn't see any crush attempts that occured within the same second.

So at least at level 25, it doesn't look like double attack triggers on offhand. Also it looks like 475 is the correct "MaxSkill" value for warriors, as the wiki suggests.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is a video of my level 25 Warrior fighting corudoth for 35 minutes.

This video is a bit unusual, as I broke my normal rule of being consistent with buffs. I did 3 casts of Cog Boost (40% Haste), as I was mostly checking max hit.

There were 987 main hand swing attempts and 336 offhand swing attempts over 2139 seconds. My haste would be 62% for 1530 seconds (Cog Boost was 8 minutes 30 seconds duration at my level), and 22% for the rest. The average haste assuming a 50/50 split is 62 + 22 = 84 / 2 = 42% haste. Since the haste wasn't a 50/50 split, 1530 / 2139 = 0.715 * 62 = 44% Haste on average.

1. 336 Offhand Crush Attempts [30 Delay / 1.44 Haste = One attack Every 2.08 Seconds]
2. 987 Primary Slash Attempts [40 Delay / 1.44 Haste = One attack Every 2.77 Seconds]
3. Fight was 2139 seconds long

2139 Seconds / 2.08 Seconds = 1028 Offhand Crush Attempts * ((130 Dual Wield Skill Level + 25 Player Level) / 475) = ~335 Predicted Secondary Crush Attempts on average.

2139 Seconds / 2.77 Seconds = 772 Primary Slash Attempts * (1 + ((130 Double Attack Skill + 25 Player Level) / 500)) = ~1011 Predicted Primary Slash Attempts on average.

Both of the predicted numbers above track with my log results. Also looking at my logs, I didn't see any crush attempts that occured within the same second.

So at least at level 25, it doesn't look like double attack triggers on offhand. Also it looks like 475 is the correct "MaxSkill" value for warriors, as the wiki suggests.

What's the DA skill max for a 25 warrior? 130? I guess this pretty much confirms what I read. We'd need to find the exact point where it starts triggering but it does confirm that DW is pretty shit if you can 2h mostly uncapped.

Do you "lose" skill points if you delevel? Unless it is already documented somewhere I have a monk that is pretty much exactly 30. I could delevel him, see if it triggers at 28 and then check again at 29 then get a whole bunch of rezzes. Or I could just get my rogue/war to 28 and see but that isn't a priority right now.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's the DA skill max for a 25 warrior? 130? I guess this pretty much confirms what I read. We'd need to find the exact point where it starts triggering but it does confirm that DW is pretty shit if you can 2h mostly uncapped.

Do you "lose" skill points if you delevel? Unless it is already documented somewhere I have a monk that is pretty much exactly 30. I could delevel him, see if it triggers at 28 and then check again at 29 then get a whole bunch of rezzes. Or I could just get my rogue/war to 28 and see but that isn't a priority right now.

Yeah double attack max skill is 130 for warriors at 25.

As far as I know, when you delevel, your skills become capped at the max for that level. So if a level 26 Warrior had 135 Double Attack skill, deleving to 25 would mean his Double Attack becomes capped at 130 until he leveled again.

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah double attack max skill is 130 for warriors at 25.

As far as I know, when you delevel, your skills become capped at the max for that level. So if a level 26 Warrior had 135 Double Attack skill, deleving to 25 would mean his Double Attack becomes capped at 130 until he leveled again.

Where are the red heads when you need them? It seems to me the meta was deleveling toons to gain significant advantage in PVP which doesn't jive with this sentiment. Maybe someone in the know can confirm.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where are the red heads when you need them? It seems to me the meta was deleveling toons to gain significant advantage in PVP which doesn't jive with this sentiment. Maybe someone in the know can confirm.

If someone can show evidence that skills do not get capped as you delevel, that would be cool.

I don't think the practice of deleveling characters itself is evidence for this. There are other benefits to deleveling a toon. As a crude example, you need to be level 46 to enter the planes. So leveling to 46 allows you get gear you wouldn't otherwise be able to get as a low level, which is advantageous.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where are the red heads when you need them? It seems to me the meta was deleveling toons to gain significant advantage in PVP which doesn't jive with this sentiment. Maybe someone in the know can confirm.

Initially your delevelled skill in pvp wouldn’t be subject to cap. This got nerfed on pvp servers so your delevelled skills would be capped at 5 levels above your current level. Afaik on pve servers a delevelled characters skills wouldn’t get clipped at all.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Initially your delevelled skill in pvp wouldn’t be subject to cap. This got nerfed on pvp servers so your delevelled skills would be capped at 5 levels above your current level. Afaik on pve servers a delevelled characters skills wouldn’t get clipped at all.

Yeah it should be easy to test. I'd probably use Meditate as the skill to check. Compare how much mana you get per tick before and after the delevel. The EQEMU code does have checks that look at player level specifically throughout the code. So I am not sure if the check that prevents double attack from triggering on offhand swings is based on player level, skill level, or both.