Bring back the Dark Men of Odus

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by CrazyPro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DMO was a slippery slope from the start and attracted some bad actors
If you want to have an Erudite RP guild at least don't give it a questionable name and don't make your RP as weird as possible.

A questionable name? You're gonna have to explain to me that one.

[Ennewi]

Regular old guilds are more user-friendly and better able to meet the demands of the MMO which typically offers more rewards than the RPG side of the game. it's already a PITA trying to accomplish x, y, z during the original timeline, what with all of the bottlenecks and clusterfucks, but then suddenly all of that ass pain is increased for a guild when its class options are restricted by the one race they've chosen to fit a theme. A solution to this would be to allow for one or two more races.

A human-only guild could manage well enough, facing no setbacks if barbarians and erudites were included. Same but to a lesser extent with gnomes, if they were to include dwarves and halflings. Wood elves, high elves, and half elves wouldn't have access to feign death, and it would be hard to explain away the inclusion of dark elves. Ogres and trolls would need a shit ton of reapers to compensate for having no clerics, and their one bard with da oogly stick would be working overtime. At least iksars would have more bards, not to mention rogues, plus monks and necromancers. Not great but still.

On their own, erudites would get bards and rogues, assuming again that masks are allowed, but the lack of warriors would be a nagging setback, largely confining them to content from Kunark and earlier.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regular old guilds are more user-friendly and better able to meet the demands of the MMO which typically offers more rewards than the RPG side of the game. it's already a PITA trying to accomplish x, y, z during the original timeline, what with all of the bottlenecks and clusterfucks, but then suddenly all of that ass pain is increased for a guild when its class options are restricted by the one race they've chosen to fit a theme. A solution to this would be to allow for one or two more races.

A human-only guild could manage well enough, facing no setbacks if barbarians and erudites were included. Same but to a lesser extent with gnomes, if they were to include dwarves and halflings. Wood elves, high elves, and half elves wouldn't have access to feign death, and it would be hard to explain away the inclusion of dark elves. Ogres and trolls would need a shit ton of reapers to compensate for having no clerics, and their one bard with da oogly stick would be working overtime. At least iksars would have more bards, not to mention rogues, plus monks and necromancers. Not great but still.

On their own, erudites would get bards and rogues, assuming again that masks are allowed, but the lack of warriors would be a nagging setback, largely confining them to content from Kunark and earlier.

Perish that thought. Erudites are the most magically advanced and intelligent race. They're not going to settle for facsimiles over the real thing.

No, you're a son of Erud, or you're not. The matter is simple.

[Ennewi]

Alternatively, a thematic guild could be formed after the fact, with the majority of its members having already acquired BIS, allowing them to push their classes to the limit on content that would provide a challenge and remain profitable. This seems like more of possibility as the servers continue to age. After every guild/player has every item/experience they wanted, what then? Either make alts, complete solo artist challenges, or delevel back to one and revisit old content twinked to the hilt. Doing so, as a thematic guild, would add a layer of challenge to the attempt at higher levels.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alternatively, a thematic guild could be formed after the fact, with the majority of its members having already acquired BIS, allowing them to push their classes to the limit on content that would provide a challenge and remain profitable. This seems like more of possibility as the servers continue to age. After every guild/player has every item/experience they wanted, what then? Either make alts, complete solo artist challenges, or delevel back to one and revisit old content twinked to the hilt. Doing so, as a thematic guild, would add a layer of challenge to the attempt at higher levels.

Nay. Sons of Erud are true of their intention. Whatever the cost to gameplay, it is worth the sacrifice for the true brotherhood that comes with unity only with your brothers.

You are no son of Erud, and it shows.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are no son of Erud, and it shows.

Rude.

[CrazyPro]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A questionable name? You're gonna have to explain to me that one.

Can you please explain to me what is "dark" about them if not the color of their skin? Because it sure doesn't have anything to do with the kind of magic they use as the guild wasn't exclusive to paineel factioned erudites. Even if that's somehow not the intent of the name, it flattens the identity into something merely visual and racialized.

When someone says "dark men", even if literally describing skin tone, the cultural baggage makes it sound like you're conflating race and morality, even if that wasn’t your intent.

There are so many other words you could pick that couldn't be construed as racist.
Why not <High Men of Odus>? <High Council of Erudin>, <Disciples of Erud>, literally anything else.

It just seems like an insensitive thing to name an Erudite-only guild.

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by CrazyPro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you please explain to me what is "dark" about them if not the color of their skin? Because it sure doesn't have anything to do with the kind of magic they use as the guild wasn't exclusive to paineel factioned erudites. Even if that's somehow not the intent of the name, it flattens the identity into something merely visual and racialized.

When someone says "dark men", even if literally describing skin tone, the cultural baggage makes it sound like you're conflating race and morality, even if that wasn’t your intent.

There are so many other words you could pick that couldn't be construed as racist.
Why not <High Men of Odus>? <High Council of Erudin>, <Disciples of Erud>, literally anything else.

It just seems like an insensitive thing to name an Erudite-only guild.

Interesting that you so elequently laid out this logical reasoning why using the word "dark" is inappropriate and in the same breathe recommended a name change that also used the word "men". Talk about identity flattening...

[CrazyPro]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting that you so elequently laid out this logical reasoning why using the word "dark" is inappropriate and in the same breathe recommended a name change that also used the word "men". Talk about identity flattening...

You bring up a good point. It's an antiquated use of the word to refer to an entire population of people that can come off as sexist nowadays.

But at the same time, I raise to you this:

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They cannot join our order but we accept them.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by CrazyPro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you please explain to me what is "dark" about them if not the color of their skin? Because it sure doesn't have anything to do with the kind of magic they use as the guild wasn't exclusive to paineel factioned erudites. Even if that's somehow not the intent of the name, it flattens the identity into something merely visual and racialized.

When someone says "dark men", even if literally describing skin tone, the cultural baggage makes it sound like you're conflating race and morality, even if that wasn’t your intent.

There are so many other words you could pick that couldn't be construed as racist.
Why not <High Men of Odus>? <High Council of Erudin>, <Disciples of Erud>, literally anything else.

It just seems like an insensitive thing to name an Erudite-only guild.

Let's break this down from multiple viewpoints, as I believe your argument is intrinsically flawed from multiple facets.

1) Dark doesn't need to be defined. It can be left mysterious, just like how certain texts rely on interpretation of the reader, part of that interpretation adds to the mystery and the fun of it.

However --

2) Let's hypothetically grant your point and say Dark is linked to skin color, and that is what it refers to (this is hypothetical, I will reiterate, this is not what I am claiming).

My question is, what is your point if it is?

That's not racist, that's a descriptor. It's not assigning character qualities neither positive or negative, it's a physical descriptor speaking to a demographic. There is nothing inheriently racist about this.

It's the same thing as asking about a person's race on a population census. There is neither positive nor negative qualities about this, merely used as a tool in human languages as a descriptor.

The problem is that it is YOU that are assigning some kind of nefarious meaning to a certain type of physical description. Your personal (and illogical) inference betrays exactly what you think about certain types of people, and that simply by mentioning a physical descriptor that it carries a negative connotation.

The only logical justification to explain your interpretation is that you have some kind of inherent bias and racism you are applying to the term, and that you are projecting that interpretation on others.

You're actually the problem here, assuming that's what you meant.

I'll be charitable and assume you don't actually mean that however, do you?

These sub 100 Int Antonicans man. Gotta spell out literally everything for them.