Claw of Lightning or Rogue Epic for offhand?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just as a quick note, the DPS calculations in my previous post did not have backstab double attack. I realized I forgot to push the absolute latest code. That is fixed now. The DPS ratios between the weapons wouldn't really change, the numbers will just go up.

Here is Ragebringer and Fang with backstab double attack and without dual wield. The Rogue is level 60, has 255 STR, 100% Haste, and 100 ATK base:

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary - 109 DPS with Backstab and the + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary - 110 DPS with Backstab.

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab and the + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab.

It looks like the lower Backstab damage from Fang is offsetting Fang's better autoattack DPS. Ragebringer does do significantly more backstab damage. It looks like Ragebringer is doing around 80k damage via backstab, vs 45k damage via Vyemm Fang against the level 50 mob.

This is probably why swapping Ragebringer to mainhand for backstabs is a good idea when using Fang. I can't imagine the small loss in autoattack DPS from the swap would offset the higher backstabs.

Thank you for the numbers. How much did adding double backstabs improve the numbers for the dual wield set ups? Comparing the primary to dual wield as it stands makes it look like even a bis secondary only adds like 10% dps?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you for the numbers. How much did adding double backstabs improve the numbers for the dual wield set ups? Comparing the primary to dual wield as it stands makes it look like even a bis secondary only adds like 10% dps?

No problem! I can show you some parses with everything.

The Rogue is level 60, has 255 STR, 100% Haste, and 100 ATK base. No duelist during the fight:

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 143.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 153 DPS with Double Backstabs.

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 96.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 97 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 95.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 99 DPS with Double Backstabs.

[Dundrige]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No problem! I can show you some parses with everything.

The Rogue is level 60, has 255 STR, 100% Haste, and 100 ATK base. No duelist during the fight:

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 143.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 153 DPS with Double Backstabs.

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 96.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 97 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 95.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 99 DPS with Double Backstabs.

Really! Wow so the ragebringer is totally worth getting it sounds like. So what would Ragebringer primary, Vyemm's Fang secondary bring?!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Dundrige [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really! Wow so the ragebringer is totally worth getting it sounds like. So what would Ragebringer primary, Vyemm's Fang secondary bring?!

Yeah Ragebringer is great, and the cheapest Epic to get too.

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Vyemm Fang Secondary = 144.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.


Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Vyemm Fang Secondary = 96 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

It's going to be slightly worse than Claw offhand, as Claw of Lightning has a slightly better ratio.

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by Dundrige [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really! Wow so the ragebringer is totally worth getting it sounds like. So what would Ragebringer primary, Vyemm's Fang secondary bring?!

Not a Hot take, but use Vyemms primary and RB secondary.

I used to play rogue back in the day, and the idea is that most raid mobs have high AC and you won't be landing many max hits on them anyway - so you use the faster weapon in main hand. Vyemm's has 13 damage and only 17 delay, so you get pretty high backstabs - and you get a very fast weapon for lots of swings per round.

Ragebringer is a must for any high-level target. You simply cannot replace the +40 worn ATK that comes with it.

The worn ATK is much less significant if you're fighting lower level targets - but on raid targets, anything level 60 or higher, you want to Stackickus Attackickus.