Spells: Root chances to break early depends on spell used

[Zuranthium]

Things were not necessarily coded as intended when it comes to details like this.

Without knowing exactly which roots allegedly would break less, and by exactly what amount, it's hard to implement any change. Someone will need to see if there are any differences in the classic client, but it doesn't look like Torven spotted any.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Things were not necessarily coded as intended when it comes to details like this.

Very good point. With obvious bugs like taunt not working above even cons and slam not generating high aggro, it is likely more subtle intentions could have been bugged entirely undetected and thus classic. <3

[Danth]

Interpretation matters, too. If the average root lasts say half its nominal duration, a longer-lasting root spell will inherently last longer than a shorter-duration spell. This type of behavior, by itself, would fit with the quoted comment.

For many years it was commonly believed (and largely demonstrated by players) that the damage portion of Druid root spells often broke the root part. Verant, per its usual behavior, vigorously denied it for a long time before supposedly fixing it quietly.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interpretation matters, too. If the average root lasts say half its nominal duration, a longer-lasting root spell will inherently last longer than a shorter-duration spell. This type of behavior, by itself, would fit with the quoted comment,

That wouldn't fit the quoted comment, GZ specifically said "chance of breaking". He's a precise speaker about such things.

This user comment is very interesting, it quotes another GZ statement: https://web.archive.org/web/20020102...?Id=563&Page=3

GZ COMMENTS ON ROOT & ENSTILL LINE OF SPELLS (SUMMARIZED), By Itzokae blastenbrun

I am sorry that I don't have a direct link to Geoff Zatkin's comments (he is the designer at verant responsible for magic stuff in case you didn't know). But basically he said this, Enstill is just a root spell with a longer duration. HOWEVER, a monster has the SAME chance to break an "enstill" as a root. This means that in practical terms it will not last any longer in combat than a root spell, because a monster has the chance to break it each time it is hit. He said this spell is intended to be used to put a monster you don't want to deal with "out of the way" for a little while. Immobilize is the "combat" (i.e. useful) upgrade for root at 39th level. Paralyzing earth (49th)is an even longer duration root (potentially 4x as long) but which still has the same chance of breaking as the original root spell.

Based on this, Immobilize is the only root that potentially had less chance of breaking, although when Immobilize is called the "combat root" that could just be referring to its faster casting time.

But look at this, I found something else that directly states Immobilize is coded to get resisted less: https://web.archive.org/web/20011228...?Id=606&Page=2

RESISTS LESS?, By Baks of veeshan

There is a very nice app out that pulls spell info directly from EQ's .eff file. According to the spell stats on Immobilize vs Root and Enstill, Immobilize has no resistance penalty. Whereas targets gets a +25 bonus against Root and Enstill, they get no bonus vs. Immobilize. Check the app at http://www.eqcaster.com Baks of Veeshan 50th lvl Wizard

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Based on this, Immobilize is the only root that potentially had less chance of breaking, although when Immobilize is called the "combat root" that could just be referring to its faster casting time.

But look at this, I found something else that directly states Immobilize is coded to get resisted less: https://web.archive.org/web/20011228...?Id=606&Page=2

It sounds like immobilize may have had a built in debuff essentially similar to how a lot of wizard spells have a -10, -100, or -300 resist check. So the effectiveness of the immobilize line would be similar to debuffing the mob first and then casting a normal root spell. That would make sense and be one aspect that doesn't seem to be accounted for in P99. Basically those fast cast low resist roots were safety nets and the slower cast long duration roots were for CC.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basically those fast cast low resist roots were safety nets and the slower cast long duration roots were for CC.

Enstill and Paralyzing Earth aren't worth using for CC on blue con MOBs if we get the classic resists implemented (unless debuffed first, but even then they wouldn't necessarily be better than Root).

The big question is FETTER. Did this have the resist debuff of Immobilize (if that did indeed exist), making it actually good, or was it just a faster casting version of Paralyzing Earth, making it not good.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enstill and Paralyzing Earth aren't worth using for CC on blue con MOBs if we get the classic resists implemented (unless debuffed first, but even then they wouldn't necessarily be better than Root).

The big question is FETTER. Did this have the resist debuff of Immobilize (if that did indeed exist), making it actually good, or was it just a faster casting version of Paralyzing Earth, making it not good.

Fetter break rate seems on par with regular root. It breaks on nuke often. Not available to shamans though.

When reverse charming big packs a 180s root is pretty much mandatory and fetter is the most efficient one. Even just doing 1v1 charms it is nice to finish the fight without having to reroot. In my experience pet damage doesn't really affect fetter as most of them see full duration and as a chanter you try to only need a single nuke to finish mobs anyway. I always have fetter on my bar and only root when I want to reset fetter root duration when planning to move a rooted target soon.