I made a P99 DPS calculator for melee classes based on EQEMU code

[Jimjam]

Sorry for lack of clarity, I meant the player riposting against an npc - it is about 1/20 chance, which isn't bad - especially as an npc is likely do multiple swings per round.

What I'm trying to say is the player riposting with a 2 hander isn't insignificant damage, and I wonder how much more damage off-hand swapping + bare fist riposte does vs riposting with a 2 hander (cos off hand swapping would likely produce mainly fist ripostes).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry for lack of clarity, I meant the player riposting against an npc - it is about 1/20 chance, which isn't bad - especially as an npc is likely do multiple swings per round.

What I'm trying to say is the player riposting with a 2 hander isn't insignificant damage, and I wonder how much more damage off-hand swapping + bare fist riposte does vs riposting with a 2 hander (cos off hand swapping would likely produce mainly fist ripostes).

Oh I see. Riposte damage probably isn't very high. My calculator doesn't do player ripostes, only NPC ripostes. However, we can do a quick thought experiment:

Let's say our player is using a 46/44 weapon. That means their Weapon Damage * 2 + Damage Bonus = 129 damage at level 60.

Mobs generally hit every 2 seconds unslowed, so you'll get swung at 30 times per minute. 5% of 30 is 1.5. When factoring in the chance to miss the riposte, we can say you'll get 1 riposte hit per minute with a 5% chance to riposte.

This means on average you are probably getting something like 2-4 DPS from Riposte from your ToV 2H weapon. In theory the offhand swapping would still do more damage if you lose this Riposte DPS, assuming you didn't miss a significant amount of your 2h swings while swapping back and forth.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're the one who can't comprehend the rules. It says you're not allowed to use programs that alter the EQ client and you're not allowed to use programs that create multiple inputs with a single keystroke. There are no "multiple inputs" happening by having a more precise mouse. Just as there are not multiple inputs happening by having a gaming mouse with extra keys, which allows you to click more buttons than you otherwise would be able to. Something tons of people use. It's allowed, as is having an eye-tracker instead of a hand mouse.

It is is you who didn't read the rules correctly. "Not limited to" means other kinds of hardware that does special stuff is prohibited, not just programmable mice and keyboards that do multiple inputs. That was just the hardware example they gave. Same with the software. You say "not limited to" so you don't have to list every possible hardware/software that is prohibited.

They explicitly state what the only exceptions are. You are allowed a standard keyboard/mouse, wineq2, and log reading programs.

Anything else is risking a ban. Nobody here is going to risk a ban for a few DPS. You are the only poster I know who is trying to interpret these rules differently.

[Zuranthium]

God you are so demented. GAMING MOUSES ARE ALLOWED. Tons of people use them, this isn't an argument whatsoever. There is absolutely no punishment for having a better computer or personal devices, LMAO. Nowhere does it say you are only allowed a "standard" keyboard and mouse (what is even the definition of "standard"?). You are just fabricating that. How would they even be able to police people from using mouses with extra buttons or eye-tracking mouse devices? They can't and don't.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody here is going to risk a ban for a few DPS.

Clueless. While I obviously don't advocate using ShowEQ and such, lots of people have used those things regardless of the risk, with many going unnoticed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

God you are so demented. GAMING MOUSES ARE ALLOWED. Tons of people use them, this isn't an argument whatsoever.

I never said "gaming mice are not allowed". You can check the thread. What you are doing using the term "gaming mice" in a very broad sense to obfuscate the functionality of the mouse you are using. Not all gaming mice have special functionalities. I have a gaming mouse with a few extra buttons, none of which do anything special.

Mice with special functionalities like programmable inputs, multiple inputs, clicking on different parts of the screen other than where your cursor actually is, etc. are not allowed. The rules say so. You are just trying to laywerquest with me, which is irrelevant. The GM will just ban you, they won't care about your lawyerquesting.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Clueless. While I obviously don't advocate using ShowEQ and such, lots of people have used those things regardless of the risk, with many going unnoticed.

You are correct, people have cheated and gotten away with it. That is also risking a ban, which is my point. Plenty of people have been banned too.

Most people who play on P99 follow the rules. The ones who don't have mostly been banned already. You aren't going to convince anybody to use scripts and hardware that are against the rules, which is what you are doing. Lawyerquesting with me doesn't change what the rules actually are.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You just use something that makes it so when you click your mouse, it always clicks the part of the screen you want.

There is no real point in continuing this back and forth. You already admitted you need to use "something" that modifies how your mouse works aside from it's standard functionality to get offhand weaving to work for non-monks.

That "something", whether it be a script or a piece of hardware, is against the rules. People are not going to use that "something" on P99 and risk a ban for a few DPS.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no real point in continuing this back and forth. You already admitted you need to use "something" that modifies how your mouse works aside from it's standard functionality to get offhand weaving to work for non-monks.

That "something", whether it be a script or a piece of hardware, is against the rules. People are not going to use that "something" on P99 and risk a ban for a few DPS.

While it was a distraction from your thread, I feel you accomplished a huge task. For years this person has been claiming people who don’t offhand swap melee every couple seconds are lazy and unskilled. Turns out they were just basing this on outsourcing the labor to programmable hardware.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While it was a distraction from your thread, I feel you accomplished a huge task. For years this person has been claiming people who don’t offhand swap melee every couple seconds are lazy and unskilled. Turns out they were just basing this on outsourcing the labor to programmable hardware.

Agreed. Thanks! Since I am probably a masochist, I did do a test on my Monk to show what Offhand Swapping would look like on P99 using the legal method. No scripts, no special mice, no special hardware, no eye tracking (lol), etc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH304a1EIjQ - Watch the first 10 minutes for the swapping. Second half is the test without swapping.

I was using TStaff in my Main Hand with 34% worn Haste. I was swapping to Addy Club on my Offhand between TStaff swings. Not saying I am great at it since this was my first time trying:

DPS with Offhand Swapping: 34970 over 604 seconds = 57.9 DPS
DPS without Offhand Swapping: 32121 over 598 seconds = 53.7 DPS

I did get like 4 DPS more with swapping to Addy Club. Monks do have much better hand to hand damage compared to every other class though, so I doubt a Warrior would even get a positive DPS boost by doing this. My DPS was probably being helped a decent amount by Monk Fist Damage with the Epic Fist modification.

The offhand swapping took way too much of my focus away from the game. It was tough to do anything else. You can see a few times where I messed up the swaps because I got distracted by something. This strategy is really not worth doing on P99 in my opinion.

I'm sure Zuranthium will call me a bad player or something. But he will probably never provide real evidence of himself doing this offhand swapping, so it's my evidence vs. his word now.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You already admitted you need to use "something" that modifies how your mouse works aside from it's standard functionality to get offhand weaving to work for non-monks.

No I didn't. You have absolutely shit reading comprehension.

Offhand weapon swapping is perfectly viable with a totally "normal" setup as long as your haste % is not too high; higher mechanical ability will result in higher and higher potential performance. Someone has even talked about how they've used it in this thread. Maybe the p99 client is not as good as the classic client, but goal of p99 is to get there, so what's important is discussing how things are supposed to be.

And no, it's not punishable to use a more precise mouse, but keep pretending like you're an admin (while admitting you would hack all users' computers to check for such a thing) when you aren't. Anyone can also change the mouse sensitivity settings on their computer, just as people have also done things like turn up their gamma a ton to curb the effects of nightblindness in game. There's been 0 punishment ever.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since I am probably a masochist, I did do a test on my Monk to show what Offhand Swapping would look like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH304a1EIjQ

You're either a troll or completely lost. This is all wrong. The whole point is to swap after the Two-hander swing, and without fist damage (you can not leave auto-attack on). You're just spamming the swap with zero regard to when the Two-hand swing is actually happening. Look at how the vast majority of your hits are "you punch", and not "you crush" (attacking with actual weapons). It shouldn't ever say punch.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No I didn't. You have absolutely shit reading comprehension...

And no, it's not punishable to use a more precise mouse...

Let's read your quote again:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You just use something that makes it so when you click your mouse, it always clicks the part of the screen you want

It is clear that "something" is a script or piece of hardware that saves positions on the screen. This allows you to click those saved positions instantly. With this setup, you don't need to move the mouse to these positions with your hand. That isn't allowed on P99.

If you were simply trying to describe how a mouse works, it was a poor description. It isn't an issue with my reading comprehension. Everybody knows how a mouse works, so I don't see the logical reason why you were trying to describe how a mouse works.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're either a troll or completely lost. This is all wrong. The whole point is to swap after the Two-hander swing, and without fist damage (you can not leave auto-attack on). You're just spamming the swap with zero regard to when the Two-hand swing is actually happening. Look at how the vast majority of your hits are "you punch", and not "you crush" (attacking with actual weapons). It shouldn't ever say punch.

The video shows how obnoxious it is to do all of that clicking. As I said in my previous post, it took way too much focus away from the game to maintain those mouse clicks without messing up. Could I get better at this? Probably. I said this was my first time trying. The focus requirement is too much for normal play in my opinion, so I won't be using this strategy.

I await the video of you doing it way better! Please show us how it's done with your "precise mouse".

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That isn't allowed on P99.

We all only know what the Play Nice Policies say, ie.:

5. You may not use third-party programs on Project 1999.

The use of any third-party programs on Project 1999, including but not limited to, Macroquest/Macroquest2(MQ/MQ2), ShowEQ(SEQ), or any other program that interacts with the Everquest Titanium Client, is strictly prohibited. Use of any third-party programs will be detected and will result in the permanent banning of your account(s). No exceptions will be made, and once a ban has been enacted for violation of this rule it will not be reversed.

This includes programmable keyboards or other devices that creates multiple inputs for a single keystroke or automated task.

Wineq2 by Lavishsoft is the exception to this rule. In addition, any program that strictly reads log files is acceptable.

But the line:

This includes programmable keyboards or other devices that creates multiple inputs for a single keystroke or automated task.

is the only one that even comes close to supporting your position. However, it doesn't, because it clearly doesn't cover programming a keyboard (or mouse) in a way that doesn't involve creating multiple inputs. The only way it could is if keyboard(/mouse) software was considered "third-party" ... but the line I quoted strongly suggests that keyboard/mouse software isn't unless it meets that criteria.

Side note: As it happens, I'm responsible for that line being added to the PnP ... but in my defense, I did not propose that verbiage (and wasn't a fan of it). I was just happy to see something added to the PnP at all, so I didn't push back on the potential issues I saw with what GM Derubael wrote (I think it was him; this was years ago).

For the record, I think the standard should be "you can't program your input devices to do anything a normal mouse/keyboard can't otherwise do". But, the staff writes the rules, and as written the PnP doesn't explicitly prohibit what Zura has proposed.