Critical Fail Combines are Amazing

[Goregasmic]

I failed the shawl 6th shawl 6 times between 163-168 tailoring. There's like a sub 1% probability of this happening. I did most of it during double drop rate christmas week so it wasn't too bad but still time consuming with how rare the siren hair and wolf whiskers are. I still need a swordfish tooth to finish 7th but I tried SG at 58 and it just wasn't gonna work.

I'm still mad AF at the whole tailoring thing, from 158 you basically have to craft 262 othmir fur caps or 335 wyvern masks unless you're a few select races... and you only have 5% chance to successfully combine until you're 200+. And most of the gear made is garbage anyway or there are much cheaper alternatives out there. I guess if you're one of the first 250 tailors early velious it may be worth it but at this point not so much.

If I'm ever guilded I'd still do spirit of grazicor for the ring because I apparently like suffering.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm still mad AF at the whole tailoring thing, from 158 you basically have to craft 262 othmir fur caps or 335 wyvern masks unless you're a few select races... and you only have 5% chance to successfully combine until you're 200+.

Successes don't matter for skill-ups ... or at least they shouldn't (they didn't in classic, and there were massive threads on the EQ Traders forum which proved as much). They do matter for whether you get a piece of worthless gear, but who cares about the gear?

Now, I have heard from people who think successes do matter. I suspect they were just confused, but I guess it's possible if Nilbog coded skillups unclassically.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Successes don't matter for skill-ups ... or at least they shouldn't (they didn't in classic, and there were massive threads on the EQ Traders forum which proved as much). They do matter for whether you get a piece of worthless gear, but who cares about the gear?

Now, I have heard from people who think successes do matter. I suspect they were just confused, but I guess it's possible if Nilbog coded skillups unclassically.

It does according to the eqtraders calculator but it is current for live IIRC so maybe they modified that later in the timeline. If it doesn't that's probably where people get the misconception from.

Tailoring makes some good gear, even some pre-raid BIS but it was so poorly designed it isn't worth working on unless you're doing shawl or you're a completionist.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It does according to the eqtraders calculator but it is current for live IIRC so maybe they modified that later in the timeline. If it doesn't that's probably where people get the misconception from.

That would make sense. Sadly, the original EQ Traders forums have been lost to time, as they're not on the Wayback Machine. I even emailed the "den mother" of EQ Traders, and she said she'd look and see if she had the old posts ... but then never wrote back, so I assume not even she has them.

Still, I'm 100% certain that tradeskill success (in classic) did not influence skillup success. This was something tradeskillers back then were very keen to know, so one tradeskiller finally did a series of tests, which proved that there was no connection.

At the time, this thread was "big news" among the classic tradeskilling community, so I remember it well, but now that it's lost it's probably the only "proof" that ever existed (because proving it required so much work that only a tradeskill addict on the tradeskill forum would conduct it).

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That would make sense. Sadly, the original EQ Traders forums have been lost to time, as they're not on the Wayback Machine. I even emailed the "den mother" of EQ Traders, and she said she'd look and see if she had the old posts ... but then never wrote back, so I assume not even she has them.

Still, I'm 100% certain that tradeskill success (in classic) did not influence skillup success. This was something tradeskillers back then were very keen to know, so one tradeskiller finally did a series of tests, which proved that there was no connection.

At the time, this thread was "big news" among the classic tradeskilling community, so I remember it well, but now that it's lost it's probably the only "proof" that ever existed (because proving it required so much work that only a tradeskill addict on the tradeskill forum would conduct it).

Do you remember what his testing looked like or not at all?

I guess you could add up how many failure/success you get and then check the skill ups proportions. I'm not sure all tradeskills are governed by the same formula though.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you remember what his testing looked like or not at all?

I guess you could add up how many failure/success you get and then check the skill ups proportions. I'm not sure all tradeskills are governed by the same formula though.

I don't remember the exact the details (it's been over two decades), but basically he did a bunch of combines with a trivial that was close (eg. tradeskill 100, trivial 110), and a bunch of combines with a trivial that was way far off (eg. trivial 200).

He did a lot of combines (which was a big deal back then: people didn't have the plat/items to just do a ton of combines at once), and found that he got the same skill-up rate regardless of the trivial.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That would make sense. Sadly, the original EQ Traders forums have been lost to time, as they're not on the Wayback Machine. I even emailed the "den mother" of EQ Traders, and she said she'd look and see if she had the old posts ... but then never wrote back, so I assume not even she has them.

Still, I'm 100% certain that tradeskill success (in classic) did not influence skillup success. This was something tradeskillers back then were very keen to know, so one tradeskiller finally did a series of tests, which proved that there was no connection.

At the time, this thread was "big news" among the classic tradeskilling community, so I remember it well, but now that it's lost it's probably the only "proof" that ever existed (because proving it required so much work that only a tradeskill addict on the tradeskill forum would conduct it).

Meaning the trade skill up percentage is just pure RNG? And a failure has just as much chance as increasing it as a successful combine?

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Meaning the trade skill up percentage is just pure RNG? And a failure has just as much chance as increasing it as a successful combine?

I don't think skill up chance is pure RNG, it definitely follows a curve. The higher you get the harder it is to skill up. When you first start out it is like 33% chance to skill up and in the 160s its like 12% and in the 200s like 6%. I've observed it through different tradeskills a well.

Your int/wis (or str/dex on some tradeskills) will affect your skill up chance but success rate seems fixed for a given level. What's "debated" is if it is easier to skill up on a success or not.

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think skill up chance is pure RNG, it definitely follows a curve. The higher you get the harder it is to skill up. When you first start out it is like 33% chance to skill up and in the 160s its like 12% and in the 200s like 6%. I've observed it through different tradeskills a well.

Your int/wis (or str/dex on some tradeskills) will affect your skill up chance but success rate seems fixed for a given level. What's "debated" is if it is easier to skill up on a success or not.

Darchon/Daldaen spreadsheet may govern directly in classic.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Meaning the trade skill up percentage is just pure RNG? And a failure has just as much chance as increasing it as a successful combine?

Yes